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The International 2017 Recap

Forum Index > The International 2017
19 CommentsPost a Reply

The International 2017 Recap

August 15th, 2017 20:37 GMT
Text byChilloManiac
Graphics byNixer
The Defense Season 5 Playoff Preview

The International 2017

Recap
More on Liquipedia


This year’s International is now over and before we start covering the post-TI shuffle we want to take a look at the last seasons conclusion. TI7 was the first International after patch 7.00 which brought us a new map and more importantly talents. The impact it had on the amount of competitive hero picks and drafts was surprising, as we ended up having only 5 unpicked heroes during the entire event (Bane, Lion, Spectre, Wraith King and Tiny).

Not only were the picks diverse this year, but so were the contenders for first place. While a decent amount of teams could be predicted to finish low, guessing how the top 6 finishers would be distributed was a difficult task. With a strong European and American core (OG, Liquid, EG and C9), alongside the dominant VP from CIS, and a hand full of strong chinese team (Newbee, IG, LGD and LFY), predicting who would fail and who would fly was almost impossible.

[image loading]


The group stages started out relatively uneventful with only few oddities. Cloud9 fans were sweating a bit as the team was, on day three, only one win ahead of last place, which this year meant elimination before the main event started. Luckily for their fans they managed to pull through on day 4 and stick a 6th place out of the 9 teams in their group. Another unforeseen event was OG just barely missing out on an upper bracket finish. OG were reliant on IG and VP not ending 1-1 in their series in order to have a tiebreaker between them and the loser. However the series did end in a tie and for the first time since the Frankfurt Major, OG started in lower bracket in a Valve event. The group stage was the end for two teams, the European team from the open qualifier, Hell Raisers, and Fnatic, who finished second in the SEA regionals but never found their footing during the tournament.

The start of the main event was pretty brutal as 4 teams would be eliminated before the day was over. The most surprising elimination was Cloud9, a team consisting only of veteran players. They got knocked out by Team Empire, who had to play with ODD.Resolut1on as a standin since their own carry player, Chappie, was unable to get his passport back from the embassy. Resolut1on himself was unable to qualify for TI with his team, Planet Odd. From the upper bracket we saw 2 of the western giants, Liquid and EG, getting knocked down into lower brackets by the hand of Chinese teams, IG and Newbee, foretelling the domination of the upper bracket by China.

The second day of TI proved to be much more exciting. First of all TNC and LGD were knocked out of upper bracket by LFY and VP respectively, resulting in the remaining winner-bracket teams being the top 4 teams out of Group B in the group stages. But the real nail biters were fought in the lower bracket with Liquid vs Secret, and EG vs Empire. Team Liquid, coming from their loss against IG, were only barely able to defeat Secret in a close 2-1 series, starting their impressive lower bracket run. More surprisingly Empire obliterated EG in a fashion that made it hard to determine whether EG was disorganised or Empire were just outplaying them. Regardless it ultimately meant that EG were gone, and the NA hope solely relied on Digital Chaos.

[image loading]


Day 3 included a bit of deja-vu as the two lower bracket games sported the same teams as the year before, on exactly the same date. A year ago, TNC managed to beat the favorite OG in an upset, but they were not able to make the same thing happen on the anniversary. The other match was LGD vs DC, which ended in DC’s favor last year, but once again the results were reversed and LGD proved victorious. The upper bracket continued to be dominated by the Chinese as LFY dropped VP into the lower bracket.

From this point on Liquid and LGD rolled through the lower brackets from both sides, ultimately ending in a duel in the fifth round. Liquid managed to take the series with an impressive 2-0 score, moving on to face LFY in the lower bracket finals. LFY themselves hadn’t lost a single series in the entire event until their defeat by Newbee in the UB finals, but their tournament run came to a close as Liquid eliminated them.

[image loading]


For the first time in a Valve event the finals concluded with a 3-0 victory. The games weren’t stomps, but Newbee was unable to gain enough footing in any of the games to take the wins from Liquid. China had been dominating the entire main stage, only to have their three strongest teams knocked out by Liquid in rapid succession.

Now five new players have been achieved TI-Winner title, and massive congratulations are due for Matumbaman, Miracle-, Mind_Control, GH and Kuroky. The TI tradition of the West and China alternating to win every other year is still in place, and no player has yet managed to win TI twice, though Newbee’s Faith came oh so close.

[image loading]


Outside of the tournament a few other noteworthy events happened as well. Two new heroes were teased in a trailer, though Valve has avoided including a release date, possibly to not hurt our feelings when they inevitably delay their release as usual! There will also seemingly be no International without Dendi, as he was invited to partake in single combat against a particularly well trained SF-Bot controlled by Elon Musk's OpenAI. Unfortunately for his fans he was not able to beat the computer. Finally, Valve also revealed their first new game since CS:GO: Artifact, a card game based on Dota 2, though they have yet to release any further information.

With another Dota 2 season over we look forward to the future with anticipation to see what it will bring us.

Writer:ChilloManiac
Editor: OmniEulogy
Photos courtesy of Julmust and Yamato
Gfx: Nixer, Valve
Facebook Twitter Reddit
WriterAlso known as Jan G.
plasmidghost
Profile Joined April 2011
United States10296 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-15 20:45:42
August 15 2017 20:45 GMT
#2
I hope the frog adds and/or changes a bunch of items when the new heroes are released
Ask me about being a trans woman | EternaLEnVy fangirl | COME ON YOU GUNNERS
Koerage
Profile Joined April 2012
Netherlands736 Posts
August 15 2017 22:11 GMT
#3
On August 16 2017 05:45 plasmidghost wrote:
I hope the frog adds and/or changes a bunch of items when the new heroes are released


the fact that there was no date during the hero announcement makes me think that either there will not be a big major patch for a while, or they will come much later than the upcoming changes (around christmas or perhaps a bit earlier)
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany7689 Posts
August 15 2017 22:14 GMT
#4
Thanks for the recap. Let's go liquid.
I'm really excited for an interview of the whole gang by you guys! Is that going to happen sometime soon-ISH?

I also wanna briefly mention my calculation of real time training the bot underwent against itself.
2 weeks at 300x the speed 24/7 are:
600 weeks 24/7
1200 weeks at 12/7
1800 weeks at 8/7
A year has 365.25 days.
Thus the bot would have had to train for roundabout 34.5 years real time with 8 hrs a day to become this dendi-beating-good.

Crazy
"Girl if you were a csgo map, you would be de_licious" - faruko
ChilloManiac
Profile Joined November 2016
Denmark8 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-16 10:09:43
August 15 2017 23:08 GMT
#5
On August 16 2017 07:14 Artisreal wrote:
I also wanna briefly mention my calculation of real time training the bot underwent against itself.
2 weeks at 300x the speed 24/7 are:
600 weeks 24/7
1200 weeks at 12/7
1800 weeks at 8/7
A year has 365.25 days.
Thus the bot would have had to train for roundabout 34.5 years real time with 8 hrs a day to become this dendi-beating-good.

Crazy


Pretty impressive, can't wait to see if they can actually manage to create bots able to play actual 5v5. Just the lineups in itself presents a lot of new variables, not to mention new mechanics not only tied to the middle lane.
WriterAlso known as Jan G.
MirageTaN
Profile Joined June 2012
Singapore454 Posts
August 16 2017 00:13 GMT
#6
What a blast this season has been, new blood coming into the scene , new dota game announced and not to mention 7.00 which honestly, I hate at first but has come round to loving it making it one of my favourite changes to dota for me.

Best newcomer this year has been GH for me, been watching him grow since dreamleague season 5 to TI7 have been a blast, delivering sick plays after another

And good to see Matu back to form, after TI6 I thought he was under performing and was kinda demotivated but ever since the addition of GH, Matu has been playing better and better and is now back at the top of the ranks as carry players go.
#TLWIN TI7, TLDota BEST TL
MirageTaN
Profile Joined June 2012
Singapore454 Posts
August 16 2017 00:14 GMT
#7
On August 16 2017 08:08 ChilloManiac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 07:14 Artisreal wrote:
Thanks for the recap. Let's go liquid.
I'm really excited for an interview of the whole gang by you guys! Is that going to happen sometime soon-ISH?

I also wanna briefly mention my calculation of real time training the bot underwent against itself.
2 weeks at 300x the speed 24/7 are:
600 weeks 24/7
1200 weeks at 12/7
1800 weeks at 8/7
A year has 365.25 days.
Thus the bot would have had to train for roundabout 34.5 years real time with 8 hrs a day to become this dendi-beating-good.

Crazy


Pretty impressive, can't wait to see if they can actually manage to create bots able to play actual 5v5. Just the lineups in itself presents a lot of new variables, not to mention new mechanics not only tied to the middle lane.

I'm actually more interested in how they would draft and ban according to the players they play against and how they will form their lineup
#TLWIN TI7, TLDota BEST TL
GtC
Profile Joined August 2013
United States334 Posts
August 16 2017 00:39 GMT
#8
I just wish they'd add human restrictions to things like reaction time. It's like building an android to play basketball in that it's incredibly impressive to teach a robot to move and balance like a human, but it's not at all impressive it beats top nba players because it happens to be 10 feet tall and hits every basket from inside half court.
The Turtle Moves
jalen
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia23 Posts
August 16 2017 00:55 GMT
#9
On August 16 2017 09:39 GtC wrote:
I just wish they'd add human restrictions to things like reaction time. It's like building an android to play basketball in that it's incredibly impressive to teach a robot to move and balance like a human, but it's not at all impressive it beats top nba players because it happens to be 10 feet tall and hits every basket from inside half court.


You may not know that OpenAI already been beaten
Why don't you play other Dota kind games? Because there is no Denies!!!!
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States7771 Posts
August 16 2017 02:34 GMT
#10
On August 16 2017 09:55 jalen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 09:39 GtC wrote:
I just wish they'd add human restrictions to things like reaction time. It's like building an android to play basketball in that it's incredibly impressive to teach a robot to move and balance like a human, but it's not at all impressive it beats top nba players because it happens to be 10 feet tall and hits every basket from inside half court.


You may not know that OpenAI already been beaten
https://twitter.com/riningear/status/896297256550252545


Interest & not surprising. AI does certain things very well, however you can adapt to what they're doing if you've seen it. Dendi was given something he hadn't seen, so it was cool & all to see but it wasn't predictive.
DucK-
Profile Joined January 2009
Singapore9453 Posts
August 16 2017 03:27 GMT
#11
I'd be more impressed if the bots were beaten fairly. From what I read, many were exploiting by killing courier early, cutting waves etc, rather than a straight up mid lane 1v1 mechanics fight.
vndestiny
Profile Joined September 2011
Singapore1892 Posts
August 16 2017 03:44 GMT
#12
Any tentative date for the full Liquid's TI7 documentary guys ?
YourGoodFriend
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1269 Posts
August 16 2017 10:26 GMT
#13
On August 16 2017 12:27 DucK- wrote:
I'd be more impressed if the bots were beaten fairly. From what I read, many were exploiting by killing courier early, cutting waves etc, rather than a straight up mid lane 1v1 mechanics fight.


You just said fairly when talking about playing 1v1 against a bot. Think of it as helping it learn, they showed it that it needs to adapt when it's courier gets killed or it's wave gets cut
Staffanonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
sCuMBaG
Profile Joined August 2006
United Kingdom406 Posts
August 16 2017 13:22 GMT
#14
Didn't hear about the card game yet... Interesting.
NOt sure that will be overly successful with the massive amounts of card games out there already.
DucK-
Profile Joined January 2009
Singapore9453 Posts
August 16 2017 13:27 GMT
#15
On August 16 2017 19:26 YourGoodFriend wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 12:27 DucK- wrote:
I'd be more impressed if the bots were beaten fairly. From what I read, many were exploiting by killing courier early, cutting waves etc, rather than a straight up mid lane 1v1 mechanics fight.


You just said fairly when talking about playing 1v1 against a bot. Think of it as helping it learn, they showed it that it needs to adapt when it's courier gets killed or it's wave gets cut


Well I don't come from the perspective of helping the bot learn. I come from the perspective that the bot is said to be very good mechanically with inhuman reflexes, so you need to be good mechanically yourself to beat him. Someone said the bot has been beaten many times already which implied that the bot maybe is not as good as some may think, or that people are actually good. I disagree because from what i read many were using cute tricks to beat him.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7 Posts
August 17 2017 03:57 GMT
#16
Sorry, a bit of a n00b about Dota, but I have some questions about things I found interesting (I like most the announcers so I watched all the knockout stage games).

1. Why did people keep picking batrider over and over? It seemed, on the surface, to me that he isn't that good at teamfighting or splitpushing, or highground defense/assault, which all seemed like important things this tournament. Also Sand King.

2. Is Death Prophet just a kind of "we don't know what we are doing and its pretty strong no matter what" pick? It was a mystery to me why teams with this character won/lost any individual game.

3. Does Terrorblade have some secret weakness? Seemed pretty decent at laning and teamfighting, and super sick at splitpushing/killing highground (which seemed very strong traits compared to other Dota tourneys I have watched), why wasn't he like 100% pick/ban by the Semis and the rest of the lower bracket?
Freeeeeeedom
DucK-
Profile Joined January 2009
Singapore9453 Posts
August 17 2017 06:43 GMT
#17
On August 17 2017 12:57 cLutZ wrote:
Sorry, a bit of a n00b about Dota, but I have some questions about things I found interesting (I like most the announcers so I watched all the knockout stage games).

1. Why did people keep picking batrider over and over? It seemed, on the surface, to me that he isn't that good at teamfighting or splitpushing, or highground defense/assault, which all seemed like important things this tournament. Also Sand King.

2. Is Death Prophet just a kind of "we don't know what we are doing and its pretty strong no matter what" pick? It was a mystery to me why teams with this character won/lost any individual game.

3. Does Terrorblade have some secret weakness? Seemed pretty decent at laning and teamfighting, and super sick at splitpushing/killing highground (which seemed very strong traits compared to other Dota tourneys I have watched), why wasn't he like 100% pick/ban by the Semis and the rest of the lower bracket?


1. Batrider is mostly for its strength in initiating on a key target. With firefly, you have superior vision which allows you to jump on targets from unexpected angles. Furthermore you are able to bring the key target out of position through force staff etc for your team to focus the hero down. Essentially batrider carries the threat of causing the enemy to team fight 4v5 because he can neutralise 1 hero, sometimes that being a carry. Very different role from SK etc.

2. DP lanes pretty decently and when farmed becomes tanky and hard to kill with spirit siphon. Exorcism is not easy to stand up against unless very farmed. Moreover the skill is a free source of building damage. DP weakness is that she is fairly useless when her ulti is in CD, or if the enemy is farmed enough to fight her while she has it on. However if DP has a good game and is tanky enough not to be killed easily, she can just be in front and hitting towers and her enemies can't do much against it.

3. TB revolves around his metamorphosis when it comes to team fights. Early on he is quite low on health, so high burst can make his life difficult. Unless you have some death ball push planned, this hero doesn't really excel in other things like pickoffs etc.
yamato77
Profile Joined October 2010
395 Posts
August 17 2017 08:11 GMT
#18
I'd say the initiation power of Batrider was almost secondary in this tournament. Vision heroes were super important because of the terrain (especially in dire jungle for instance) and thus any hero with flying vision was picked heavily. Plus, Bat is a great laner, wins some 1v2 matchups, and laning strength was also super important at TI.

Sand King is a great laner against melee heroes because Caustic Finale is a broken skill. He's also a flex pick for a lot of teams because he can be offlane or support, making an early SK pick a strong drafting foundation. He brings teamfight control and mobility to many lineups, much like a Puck. Similar heroes in a lot of ways. See: EG throughout the leadup to TI for the utility of SK picks.

DP was picked because teams wanted to do objectives, and she excels in the 2v2 midlane metagame that developed throughout the tournament. She also kills Roshan well, and with 2nd Roshan giving cheese, teams developed strong strategies around using that Rosh timing to deathpush with a strong DP. She won when she won midlane and took the tower early, facilitating map control that allowed for easier Rosh taking and further objectives. She lost when she got behind ever because that hero blows when underfarmed, she just dies to a strong gust of wind.

TB wasn't picked as much because Earthshaker was. The teams that did run TB often picked Shadow Shaman as well, one of the best laning supports with the hero with an ultimate that synergizes with TB's tower-pushing strengths. He's only OK at teamfighting, teams with more experience and planned item buys can mitigate the strength of his ultimate and thus much of his presence in a teamfight. He's also another hero that really sucks when behind because underfarmed illusions die to support spells and the hero doesn't bring much to a team besides raw damage output and lane pushing.
Writer@WriterYamato
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7 Posts
August 17 2017 22:24 GMT
#19
Very cool. On Death Prophet, that makes a lot of sense. I just kept seeing this hero stand in front of towers with the ghosts swirling, and sometimes she died and sometimes was invincible.
Freeeeeeedom
Ufnal
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland1202 Posts
August 23 2017 15:23 GMT
#20
On August 16 2017 22:27 DucK- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2017 19:26 YourGoodFriend wrote:
On August 16 2017 12:27 DucK- wrote:
I'd be more impressed if the bots were beaten fairly. From what I read, many were exploiting by killing courier early, cutting waves etc, rather than a straight up mid lane 1v1 mechanics fight.


You just said fairly when talking about playing 1v1 against a bot. Think of it as helping it learn, they showed it that it needs to adapt when it's courier gets killed or it's wave gets cut


Well I don't come from the perspective of helping the bot learn. I come from the perspective that the bot is said to be very good mechanically with inhuman reflexes, so you need to be good mechanically yourself to beat him. Someone said the bot has been beaten many times already which implied that the bot maybe is not as good as some may think, or that people are actually good. I disagree because from what i read many were using cute tricks to beat him.


A bot will *always* have better reflexes than a human being, just as a computer will always count faster than a human. Therefore in a game played in a way that the bot was taught to play, it will always be mechanically more skilled. Therefore the proper way to beat a bot - and a proper test of whether it's really as good as or better than humans - is to use clever strategies and approaches that only a human can come up with. I don't see it as "cute tricks", I see it as identifying and exploiting a weakness. How is that "unfair"?
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