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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 276

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Torte de Lini
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7680 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 18:19:11
February 11 2016 00:23 GMT
#5501
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Birdie
Profile Joined August 2007
New Zealand1895 Posts
February 11 2016 01:21 GMT
#5502
Drow's strength at the moment is the ability to push down towers really fast with your team 5manning; items and skill build should be based on early engagements and hitting towers. Frost arrows and gust = easy kills on poorly positioned players defending towers, particularly with your high damage early on in the game in comparison to health pools of the enemy heroes. Maxing E over a value point lets you push towers a little faster but doesn't allow you to control the fight as well.

In terms of items, if you're pushing down towers then aquila is a must-have on someone on your team, drums is OK, HotD is VERY GOOD (better than MoM and Vlads), yasha is so-so, dragon lance is pretty good.

If you're playing drow as a ganker or a farmer then the item builds are different in both cases, but the current meta works really well with early tower pushing as drow.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1362 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-11 01:24:34
February 11 2016 01:22 GMT
#5503
On February 11 2016 09:21 Torte de Lini wrote:
Drow Ranger

1. My biggest complaint when I played Drow Ranger was the amount of ganks happening and the inability to do anything. Since we don't max Gust nor get Shadow Blade, we would essentially just die whether we were doing Ancients, Jungling or even defending in lane.


Once again, getting Gust 2 to cover your TP out should fix this against a lot of lineups. On the other hand...

On February 11 2016 09:21 Torte de Lini wrote:
I want Drow Ranger to have one path and for it to be the most straight-forward in terms of goals or role. I understand that is just against the nature of Dota regardless.

That's what Shadow Blade+MoM or Aghs+Mjollnir does.
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia3580 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-11 09:03:50
February 11 2016 01:36 GMT
#5504
On February 11 2016 09:21 Torte de Lini wrote:
Drow Ranger

1. My biggest complaint when I played Drow Ranger was the amount of ganks happening and the inability to do anything. Since we don't max Gust nor get Shadow Blade, we would essentially just die whether we were doing Ancients, Jungling or even defending in lane.

But drow dies anyway. That's the whole point of drow. If you get caught, you will die, because you are made of glass and sb/gust don't change that. A ganker that sees your sb can just bring dust. It's really not a very good escape tool. It's mostly for repositioning during or before fights.

Yes, sometimes you do need it - that's what the Situational tab is for - but for 2.8k in every game, "occasionally the other team will screw up" doesn't cut it to me.

On February 11 2016 09:21 Torte de Lini wrote:
2. If we're split-pushing or farming for our Core Items, generally avoiding fights unless it is a sure thing (a la Spectre), why are we maxing Frost Arrows first? Especially with a lot of heroes opting for Blink Dagger or having some escape that really makes Frost Arrows almost null.

You're wrong that drow shouldn't be fighting. Picking smart fights is different to only joining fights to KS. She deals insane DPS if her team can put up a competent frontline, and also shreds towers with or without her team. Her contribution is significant and frost arrows are a big part of that.

What max arrows means is that anything choosing to engage her has to be damn sure they will win. You can't man down when she is wailing on you with a constant 60% slow and +60 agi at 10 minutes in. That makes her very hard for a 3-5pos to shoo away from a tower, and consistently gets kills at the tail end of fights. Arrows also provide a ton of utility in jungle, lane and rosh.

Shadowblade helps, but it's not essential to a fighting build. It's a significant detour when the same gold into yasha/dlance actually makes you stronger in fights.

On February 11 2016 09:21 Torte de Lini wrote:
Originally, Item-wise: it feel late-game'ish goal-oriented: RoA -> Helm -> Yasha -> BKB -> Manta Style
but Skill-wise: Frost Arrows into Precision Aura.

I prefer that build, although yasha vs. dlance vs. SnY is debatable, and as always manta should be in extension. Aghs+mael is a completely different discussion.

Gust vs. aura is really impossible to call. Both help you fight so you just choose per game by looking at the team and basically counting how many ranged/summons there are. My gut instinct is that invoker et al. are common enough, on average, to max aura in the guide.
Logo
Profile Joined April 2010
United States4569 Posts
February 11 2016 03:08 GMT
#5505
I'm noticing more Sand Kings skimping on Arcane boots for Tranquil Boots & faster blink, but it seems somewhat evenly split still. Could be something to keep an eye on though.
Logo
Birdie
Profile Joined August 2007
New Zealand1895 Posts
February 11 2016 03:15 GMT
#5506
On February 11 2016 12:08 Logo wrote:
I'm noticing more Sand Kings skimping on Arcane boots for Tranquil Boots & faster blink, but it seems somewhat evenly split still. Could be something to keep an eye on though.

Usually it's Tranq/Soul Ring vs Arcanes, and you can do either depending on team composition and whether you need the movement speed for ganking or not.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland598 Posts
February 11 2016 10:11 GMT
#5507
Sand King llikes to buy Aether Lens so Arcane Boots are good choice. Plus SK doesnt really use his hp to farm (just sandstorming in the jungle doesnt really make u lose hp so the hp regen from tranqs are kinda useless). One could argue that AL loses its value after u get Aghs but having 200 more stun range never hurts.

Tranqs does give u a lot more movement speed for the easier stuns before u get ur blink so thats a good thing.

After all its all about how u see the game going, if ur team needs so extra mana regen and no one else is building arcanes, then there shouldnt be another choice.

Soul Ring is mostly bought by heroes who farm faster with the extra mana, have horrible mana pool or use shitload of mana in short time. Sand king kinda does lack mana pool but not as much as Earthshaker or Enigma does.

Both are fine but for the guide, i would keep the Arcanes atleast for now.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
ahswtini
Profile Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland16360 Posts
February 11 2016 10:24 GMT
#5508
tranqs sr sand king is more of a laning build imo
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7680 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-11 23:36:32
February 11 2016 23:35 GMT
#5509
I got some early stats numbers today and it looks like we'll be hitting past 3 million new subscribers in 15 days. This is actually an unprecedented growth rate of 3million across two months (2.9 -> 3.2 -> 3.07 -> 3.03+ [will be higher when collected at its usual time]).

Last time we had this kind of growth was back in May 17th to June 16th (3.2 -> 3.2 -> 3.02). One month.

Pretty interesting. Could be a combination of Lunar New Year, Battle Pass and 6.86 dropping. In 2015, it was around the same conditions and it was only a 200-300k jump and it didn't last 2 months. Really interesting.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7680 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 18:23:02
February 12 2016 18:19 GMT
#5510
Lifestealer Lifestealer
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Removed Orb of Venom

Ursa Ursa (Jungle)
Moved Morbid Mask to Core Items
Removed Iron Talon

Outworld Devourer Outworld Devourer
Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items

Drow Ranger Drow Ranger
New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W E E R E W W R (1. Frost Arrows 2. Precision Aura 3. Gust)
Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
Created New Tab: "Utility Items"
Added Yasha to Core Items
Added Town Portal Scroll to "Utility Items"
Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items
Added Mask of Madness to Situational Items
Added Mjollnir to "Luxury Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Moved Manta Style to Extension Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to "Luxury Items"
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to "Luxury Items"
Removed Drums of Endurance

Mirana Mirana
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Removed Wraith Band
Removed Iron Branch

Outworld Devourer Outworld Devourer
Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items

Shadow Shaman Shadow Shaman (Lane)
Shadow Shaman Shadow Shaman (Middle)
Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Removed Arcane Boots

Ogre Magi Ogre Magi
Removed Arcane Boots

Lion Lion
Added Ethereal Blade to Extension Items

Ember Spirit Ember Spirit (Lane)
Ember Spirit Ember Spirit (Middle)
Added Quelling Blade to Core Items
Added Daedalus to Extension Items

Nyx Assassin Nyx Assassin (Lane)
Nyx Assassin Nyx Assassin (Middle)
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Tranquil Boots

Bounty Hunter Bounty Hunter
Added Guardian Greaves to Core - Roam
Added Pipe of Insight on Extension - Roam
Added Lotus Orb to Extension - Roam
Added Heaven's Halberd to Extension - Roam
Moved Solar Crest to Situational Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Extension - Roam
Removed Dagon - Level 1
Removed Orchid of Malevolence
Removed Ethereal Blade

Elder Titan Elder Titan (Lane)
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items
Moved Solar Crest to Situational Items
Removed Medallion of Courage
Removed Heart of Tarrasque
Removed Assault Cuirass

Arc Warden Arc Warden (Lane)
New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Flux 2. Spark Wraith 3. Magnetic Field)
Added Mjollnir to Extension Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Manta Style to Luxury Items

Arc Warden Arc Warden (Middle)
New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Flux 2. Spark Wraith 3. Magnetic Field)
Added Mjollnir to Extension Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Manta Style to Luxury Items
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7680 Posts
February 12 2016 18:21 GMT
#5511
Publishing Changes

https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
BluemoonSC
Profile Joined November 2010
SoCal7988 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-12 18:47:15
February 12 2016 18:46 GMT
#5512
I don't necessarily think that sand king likes aether lens.

Like I think it's good, but blink force is good also.
Sellout@BluemoonGG_ | The past is your lesson. The present, your gift. And the future.. your motivation.
Torte de Lini
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7680 Posts
February 12 2016 19:02 GMT
#5513
After ~15 days (January 27 to February 11), we have risen from 120,039,772 to 123,117,792 combined subscriptions

A difference of 3,078,020
Average Subscribers per Guide is 837,536.00
Growth Percentage is 2.56%


5 least popular guides (bottom being the least popular):
  1. Arc Warden Arc Warden (Middle) (165,117)
  2. Beastmaster Beastmaster (Middle) (154,570)
  3. Brewmaster Brewmaster (Middle) (132,167)
  4. Shadow Shaman Shadow Shaman (Middle) (45,313)
  5. Warlock Warlock (Middle) (40,320)


5 most popular guides (top being the most popular):
  1. Lifestealer Lifestealer (Jungle)
  2. Sven Sven
  3. Phantom Lancer Phantom Lancer
  4. Juggernaut Juggernaut
  5. Bounty Hunter Bounty Hunter


Notable Growths in Subscriptions:
  • Lifestealer Lifestealer (Jungle) (1,740,133 -> 1,765,442)
  • Juggernaut Juggernaut (1,458,693 -> 1,490,226)
  • Bounty Hunter Bounty Hunter (1,428,989 -> 1,460,292)
  • Spectre Spectre (1,116,824 -> 1,158,482)
  • Zeus Zeus (1,011,284 -> 1,086,952)
  • Shadow Shaman Shadow Shaman (Lane) (999,046 -> 1,022,271)
  • Outworld Devourer Outworld Devourer (722,150 -> 767,059)
  • Ursa Ursa (Lane) (676,339 -> 713,540)
  • Windranger Windranger (Middle) (414,453 -> 461,811)
  • Alchemist Alchemist (Middle) (192,415 -> 232,870)


Newly Released Guides:




    Patreon.com/Torte, this project continues to be made possible by the contributions of:

    Alli Goss, Josh Laseter, Leon Traill, Alishams Hassam, Duncan, Ramona Brown, Igor Dolgiy, Slashershot, Kurt Freda, WaifuGoneWild, JimmaDaRustla, Samuel Enocsson, Joel Absolom, Jordan Spence, Milk Jug Armadillo, Matthew Nami, Max Kemeny, Jose Cacho, Tobias Iskov Thomsen, Moe Foster, Daniel Thackray, Patrick Colton, Nicholas Chlumecky, Maxime Lebled, Elliot Cuite, Patrick Schreck, Batlomieg Jan Pasek, Kevin Hutton, Dice, Scott Cherington, Mikey Kaminski, Nicolas Chlumecky, Pearson Mewbourne

    Portions of their pledges will go to long-time community members, dedicated to providing feedback to keep this collection of hero builds accurate to current standards of play.
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Joined September 2010
    Germany7680 Posts
    Last Edited: 2016-02-12 19:26:20
    February 12 2016 19:25 GMT
    #5514
      This latest update and hero builds changes was made possible thanks to the feedback and knowledge of the following community members. Sincere thank you to: Logo, BluemoonSC, Velzi, Belisarius, TheYango, Sn0_Man, tehh4ck3r, HackDice, Birdie, Buckyman, teddyoojo, SpiritoftheTunA, ahswtini, LemonWarlord

    • Growth of Subscribers continues past 3 million for two consecutive months. Unprecedented growth of all time.
    • 14.25% of last month's unique players [12,390,838] are subscribed to the our highest subscribed guide: Lifestealer Lifestealer (Jungle) Guide

    • Shadow Shaman Shadow Shaman (Lane) (1,022,271) recently hit the 1 million mark

    • Eight guides are currently swimming towards the 1 million mark: Legion Commander (997,955), Vengeful Spirit (992,528), Omniknight (991,483), Lich (990,867), Venomancer (989,800), Ember Spirit (988,551), Skywrath Mage (971,943), Night Stalker (966,118)

    • Top 51 guides are approx. 1Mill subscribers or higher each
    • Top 66 guides are approx. 900k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 84 guides are approx. 800k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 105 guides are approx. 700k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 119 guides are approx. 600k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 125 guides are approx. 500k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 136 guides are approx. 400k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 141 guides are approx. 300k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 145 guides are approx. 200k subscribers or higher each
    • Top 147 guides are approx. 100k subscribers or higher each
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Joined September 2010
    Germany7680 Posts
    Last Edited: 2016-02-13 21:41:12
    February 13 2016 21:41 GMT
    #5515
    [image loading]

    1 million unique for Legion Commander Legion Commander (Lane)

    If interested in a timeline of 1 million hits and milestones, you can check it here: http://steamcommunity.com/id/0825771

    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Joined September 2010
    Germany7680 Posts
    Last Edited: 2016-02-15 06:03:34
    February 14 2016 19:00 GMT
    #5516
    Move Drums on Enchantress
    Improve alchemist Middle (no Octarine/Manta)
    add linken's to magnus, move guardian greaves to extension
    rework juggernaut skill build
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
    Belisarius
    Profile Joined November 2010
    Australia3580 Posts
    Last Edited: 2016-02-15 01:03:40
    February 14 2016 23:42 GMT
    #5517
    On February 13 2016 03:19 Torte de Lini wrote:

    Drow Ranger Drow Ranger
    New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W E E R E W W R (1. Frost Arrows 2. Precision Aura 3. Gust)
    Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
    Created New Tab: "Utility Items"
    Added Yasha to Core Items
    Added Town Portal Scroll to "Utility Items"
    Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items
    Added Mask of Madness to Situational Items
    Added Mjollnir to "Luxury Items
    Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
    Moved Manta Style to Extension Items
    Moved Monkey King Bar to "Luxury Items"
    Moved Aghanim's Scepter to "Luxury Items"
    Removed Drums of Endurance

    I hate to keep harping on drow but I think the new build is quite confused. There are too many things in situational, although starting, core and skillbuild are pretty good now. A lot of people prefer dlance over yasha and I was hoping someone else might weigh in there.

    - BKB should be extension and not situational, imo. Drow needs it to operate in big fights. Situational just encourages people to skip it.
    - No more MoM. It dictates her entire playstyle and you're not doing that build. Don't toy with it.
    - sedge should just be sblade. Sedge is a situational upgrade to what's already a situational item. In the very narrow window where it's needed, people will probably stumble upon it.
    - Aghs and mjoll aren't really luxury. + Show Spoiler +

    Aghs mael is a specific progression that you get around the yasha/BKB timing to farm, and to abuse the crazy powerspike from 4xlightning procs. Mjoll doesn't do all that much as 5th/6th item. Aghs is good enough to get anywhere but I'd probably rather it be earlier, because it helps your farm massively.


    I admit I still don't fully understand the difference between extension and luxury in these guides, especially when every item in your "extension" is actually better as 4th/5th major than after roa/hod/yasha. Really, I would be happier if you outright switched extension and luxury here.

    Are you planning to do the TP category thing on every here? I don't mind it, but it seems kind of random. Drow's not really an outlier on a heroes-who-want-to-TP-to-things scale.




    On February 14 2016 06:41 Torte de Lini wrote:

    1 million unique for Legion Commander Legion Commander (Lane)

    If interested in a timeline of 1 million hits and milestones, you can check it here: http://steamcommunity.com/id/0825771


    Speaking of unnecessary shadowblades, here's LC. I really, really do not like shadowblade LC, and I like it even less here.

    SB LC rant:+ Show Spoiler +
    The difference is not "you get shadowblade in soloqueue and blink with a team". You get shadowblade when you're doing well enough that you can invade past wards and just duel some fool without fear. Sometimes it's needed against heroes with instant escapes who are getting out during the duel cast time, like with Doom. In pretty much all other cases blink is better, especially since lane LC is usually a 3pos.

    People say that sblade is the rightclick build, but that's not even true. The fact that you can pre-cast PtA with blink and not with SB totally outweighs the AS from amulet. And that's not to mention the huge stack of other pre-fight actives she depends on (OO, blademail, armlet, BKB etc) that are utterly incompatible with SB.

    Provided you're not utterly stomping, blink = more opportunities = more damage = more rightclick = more winning


    imo:
    - treads before blink unless you really trust your team to do the work in your first duel kills
    - earlygame should have stick and quelling (or talon)
    - no bottle...
    - Build should, imo, be boots+stick+quelling->treads->blink->(blademail)->BKB with Sblade situational.

    For starting items I've had a lot of success with tango/salve/stout/mango. 1 HP regen item isn't enough in offlane, even with PtA.
    TheYango
    Profile Joined September 2008
    United States10886 Posts
    Last Edited: 2016-02-15 01:47:41
    February 15 2016 01:47 GMT
    #5518
    Lothar's LC is for those super rare games where you're doing amazing and your team is doing terrible, so you can't rely on anyone to help you but can solo-kill anybody even without PtA attack speed. For the purpose of a guide, I'd actually be OK just not including it at all.

    In any other situation it's going to be Blink->defensive items. If you're stomping you really want to just buy defensive items + mixed defensive/AS items like AC or S&Y because if you're getting Duel damage all the time you basically never have to buy an actual +damage item to keep up.
    Moderator
    Belisarius
    Profile Joined November 2010
    Australia3580 Posts
    Last Edited: 2016-02-15 02:53:44
    February 15 2016 02:18 GMT
    #5519
    I do think blademail is worth a detour a lot of the time. Being able to turn a core's damage back on it really expands the heroes you can solokill in the 15-20 minute window.

    If you're doing badly or they're 5-manning, blink->BKB is needed, but you give up a lot of snowball. So long as you're not getting totally dumpstered you can put a lot of pressure on any high-damage low-HP core with minimal investment.

    EDIT: nevermind you're probably including blademail in "defensive items" anyway
    Torte de Lini
    Profile Joined September 2010
    Germany7680 Posts
    Last Edited: 2016-02-15 22:27:54
    February 15 2016 19:39 GMT
    #5520
    Legion Commander Shadow Blade is extremely valuable for Legion Commander at the lower levels and is more flexible in the variety of situations that Legion gets caught in. I doubt it many times, but every time I see it used (and with the recent influx of Legion players in my games rising), it does just as formidably well as Blink Dagger.

    I don't doubt Blink Dagger is more effective, cheaper on mana for a mana-starved hero and the proper initiating item; but Blink Dagger is being too quick to dismiss here.

    I agree: + Treads before Blink
    + Iron Talon
    + Added Regen
    + Bottle Situational

    Drow Ranger
    + Will remove MoM
    + Will adjust extension to fit BKB
    + Will replace S. Edge
    + Will hold off on Aghs/Mjoll - I've tried it once, would like to try it again

    TP/Utility Items is for heroes who have a specific way to guarantee escaping. It's a neat trick that can save lives and it's in view of my new text revisions back in late 2015.

    for Black King Bar: If in Situational Items: Either you need it or never will throughout the game. If in Extension Items: at some point, you will need to consider this as the game progresses and their disables start to become a nuisance

    Obviously, these aren't hard rules. Just a thought-process.




    Really get a lot of games in, losing a lot of games trying to test builds, but I also feel a lot more confident about the builds and knowledge of the heroes; I was previously very unsure and uncomfortable.
    https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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