In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 275
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Torte de Lini
Germany7680 Posts
 LifestealerMoved Hand of Midas to Situational Items Removed Orb of Venom  Ursa (Jungle)Moved Morbid Mask to Core Items Removed Iron Talon  Outworld DevourerMoved Blink Dagger to Core Items Moved Force Staff to Situational Items  Drow RangerNew Skill Build: Created New Tab: "Luxury Items" Added Yasha to Core Items Added Mjollnir to "Luxury Items Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items Moved Manta Style to Extension Items Moved Monkey King Bar to "Luxury Items" Moved Aghanim's Scepter to "Luxury Items" Removed Drums of Endurance  MiranaAdded Observer Ward to Starting Items Removed Wraith Band Removed Iron Branch  Shadow Shaman (Lane) Shadow Shaman (Middle)Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Moved Force Staff to Extension Items Removed Arcane Boots  Ogre MagiRemoved Arcane Boots  LionAdded Ethereal Blade to Extension Items  Ember Spirit (Lane) Ember Spirit (Middle)Added Quelling Blade to Core Items Added Daedalus to Extension Items  Nyx Assassin (Lane) Nyx Assassin (Middle)Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items Removed Tranquil Boots  Bounty HunterAdded Guardian Greaves to Core - Roam Added Pipe of Insight on Extension - Roam Added Lotus Orb to Extension - Roam Added Heaven's Halberd to Extension - Roam Moved Solar Crest to Situational Items Moved Vladmir's Offering to Extension - Roam Removed Dagon - Level 1 Removed Orchid of Malevolence Removed Ethereal Blade  Elder Titan (Lane)Added Aether Lens to Extension Items Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items Moved Solar Crest to Situational Items Removed Medallion of Courage Removed Heart of Tarrasque Removed Assault Cuirass  Arc Warden (Lane)New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Flux 2. Spark Wraith 3. Magnetic Field) Added Mjollnir to Extension Items Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Moved Manta Style to Luxury Items Arc Warden (Middle)New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Flux 2. Spark Wraith 3. Magnetic Field) Added Mjollnir to Extension Items Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Moved Manta Style to Luxury Items | ||
TheYango
United States10886 Posts
You could argue that you shouldn't pick Drow in a teamcomp that doesn't use the aura, but that's a different issue entirely. Regardless, if you're playing her in a teamcomp where no other core heroes benefit from the aura, or where there are no summoned units to abuse the active component, the value of ranks 2-4 in Aura is really low. That said, I don't think it's a decision that interacts with your item choice at all. If you do have a teamcomp that uses aura efficiently, getting Lothar's doesn't change that fact and you should still be leveling Aura. | ||
Buckyman
1362 Posts
The decision to max Aura vs. Gust is based largely on how many fights you want to show up for. If you're using Shadow Blade to rat, sure, pick up extra aura to help your team fight 4v5. If you're ganking with Shadow Blade, the extra silence duration is the difference between killing someone before they get off any spells and allowing them to cast. | ||
TheYango
United States10886 Posts
1 point of damage per rank is significant but ultimately does not actually make or break your decision. | ||
SpiritoftheTunA
United States14739 Posts
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Velzi
Finland598 Posts
On February 09 2016 10:19 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: if i have a viper or invoker etc who can absolutely dominate the earlygame with the difference between level 1 and 4 aura, i max it. otherwise, i like 441 because the control feels way better and you can dominate your lane earlier with early points into frost arrow, depending on the lane. frost arrow scales linearly (15%/30%/45%/60%), which means the 2nd point is way more value than the 2nd point in either other choice, so i often like to get at least 214 regardless. its like the difference between viper having level 1.5 poison attack for slow or level 3 For exact same reason Viper likes to take more than 1 point in Q before lvl7 (maxing E is most of the time correct). Either 3-1-1-1 into 3-1-4-1 or 2-1-2-1 into 2-1-4-1. U have to also take in account ur enemies, more lvls in Frost Arrows vs someone who will get close to no matter what makes no sense compared when u are against something like Ursa,Wk,Sven pre-Blink. | ||
SpiritoftheTunA
United States14739 Posts
On February 09 2016 10:25 Velzi wrote: For exact same reason Viper likes to take more than 1 point in Q before lvl7 (maxing E is most of the time correct). Either 3-1-1-1 into 3-1-4-1 or 2-1-2-1 into 2-1-4-1. U have to also take in account ur enemies, more lvls in Frost Arrows vs someone who will get close to no matter what makes no sense compared when u are against something like Ursa,Wk,Sven pre-Blink. on the contrary, i think frost arrows against some of those melee heroes can be great in skirmishes as long as you properly position behind other people that they go on. if they go on you with a smoke, you're dead no matter what build you go, but in skirmishes that could go even, frost arrows can be the difference maker (your heroes can often kite melee heroes if you have a 60% slow rather than 30%). | ||
TheYango
United States10886 Posts
On February 09 2016 10:19 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: if i have a viper or invoker etc who can absolutely dominate the earlygame with the difference between level 1 and 4 aura, i max it. Ranks 2-3 make almost no difference to laning when you get them. Rank 2 Aura is literally +1 damage when you take it at level 3, which is basically irrelevant. Aura ranks benefit ranged cores in the medium-term, but with your pre-6 Agi and no meaningful items, ranks 2 and 3 barely do anything. Laning advantage is a significant reason for the first rank, but not for the later ones. | ||
SpiritoftheTunA
United States14739 Posts
On February 09 2016 10:31 TheYango wrote: Ranks 2-3 make almost no difference to laning when you get them. Rank 2 Aura is literally +1 damage when you take it at level 3, which is basically irrelevant. Aura ranks benefit ranged cores in the medium-term, but with your pre-6 Agi and no meaningful items, ranks 2 and 3 barely do anything. Laning advantage is a significant reason for the first rank, but not for the later ones. i know lots of people who get rank 3 aura by level 5 probably for the logic that they want the burst at level 6 to their team to be as big as possible asap, but ofc that's for a very specific type of game. i'd still favor leveling frost arrow in the guide. | ||
Buckyman
1362 Posts
The case for each build at level 11: 4-1-4-2 : Maximum synergy with ranged teammates 4-4-1-2 : Maximum ability to kill enemies during the Gust silence before common BKB timings 4-2-3-2 : Compromise build, with the idea that 4 seconds is 'good enough'. This breakpoint is significant because it's the most aura-heavy build where a Gust TP escape is a reliable option. | ||
Torte de Lini
Germany7680 Posts
I want to: - : give Lion 1 more extension Items- : Imitate Arc Warden lane to that of Captain's Draft build (Fear)- : add Quelling Blade before boots of travel- : remove tranquil boots from extension- : add aether lens to core extension (Lane) and Situational (Middle)- : pin down ideal skill build + shadow blade build- : consider adding another Daedalus to extension items- : rework roaming items + extension (GG)I'll do one more pass around all the hero builds to see if I missed anything. Start planning to transition to a new Hero Builds system and apply it after the Shanghai Major if the work and transition is not too overwhelming or something I can still work with in terms of policies and item build breakdown. Battle Pass is really making me play more efficiently and more varied than before. Less changes than usual (patch is finally settling in), but a lot of test games to compensate and iron out some guides I never got around to testing out. Played 3 games today, 9 games Sunday | ||
Buckyman
1362 Posts
On February 09 2016 17:54 Torte de Lini wrote: - : Imitate Arc Warden lane to that of Captain's Draft build (Fear)Here's the VoD, in case anyone in the thread wants to comment on the build. I'm usually reluctant to recommend Divine Rapier in pubs, because a significant fraction of players use the power boost as an excuse to play very aggressively. | ||
Torte de Lini
Germany7680 Posts
1. I asked in early 2014 if people were interested and I got a positive response. 2. I find it personally very interesting and fun to do and analyze why X/Y guide is growing, the jump in numbers and what elements (recently played competitively, newly-buffed/changed in a patch) affect that growth. I am very personally proud of this project and the numbers remain a good personal motivator to keep doing this. Since this project is (mostly) for fun/passion, I do things that are of interest to myself and the few (who also like to see big data). Seeing the fruits of labour in a project is also confidence-building and a strong motivator. Previously the data was collected manually, recently I was gifted a script to collect the data automatically every two weeks; so it is about 30 minutes to an hour of my time, twice a month, to input it for public record and interest. On February 10 2016 00:30 Buckyman wrote: Here's the VoD, in case anyone in the thread wants to comment on the build. I'm usually reluctant to recommend Divine Rapier in pubs, because a significant fraction of players use the power boost as an excuse to play very aggressively. Divine Rapier is already in the builds, but it is under Luxury Items, it won't move, but Skill Order and Early/Core Items prioritization will be re-arranged. In a strange twist of events, Arc Warden is also my Daily Hero Quest. I am going to revise the contributor's list and future accreditation after I finalize any last changes and stats. It will be broken down in 4 ways. I need to sift through all posts on this thread + reddit topics/private messages to add new names to the list. 1. The contributor's list on the front page will be broken down into two categories from A. Redditors who contribute B. Liquid Dota Contributors 2. After each stats update, I will list both dedicated pledges as well as take note of those who have contributed with feedback within those 15 days 3. When a new patch hits, I will accredit users who were helpful for all of last patch and of the new patch update in specifics We're nearing 3 years of this project and I have been thanking Patrons for their pledges recently, but not mentioning those who have been helping me via feedback (I equate both style of contributions as equally rewarding and appreciating). Also whenever I made a Reddit post, I have been listing all contributors, since the project's start, as credit, but it drowned out those who have been giving significant help now or in recent months. So I want to emphasize those people more. | ||
Belisarius
Australia3579 Posts
You pick it up if you're getting hunted before/during fights and need help getting angles. Usually you don't want to buy it but you do when you're forced to. If you're deciding from minute 0 to go sblade, you're probably hoping to do the mom+shadowblade solokill thing against like ember/qop/morph/am. In that case you probably do favour gust, but that's super all-in and is going to fail horribly if it's not the right game for it. My preference would be to do something like treads-RoA-helm-(yasha/dlance), with situational sblade, blink, SnY. Extension would be all the usual BKB aghs blfy MKB daedalus satanic. If you really must have shadowblade in core, I think you're better to stick with RoA/helm into shadowblade than go all-in on solokills with mom, even if it's not really optimal. Skillbuild is super situational but I think aura over gust is a better standard. There's usually some nerd playing invoker this patch anyway. Maybe you could add rank 2 gust somewhere in 8-10 for utility. | ||
Velzi
Finland598 Posts
If u really want to have Shadowblade core on hero, it should be Slark and/or Troll, not Drow. I havent experiment Aghs with anything else except good old Triple Mjollnir Aghs build so i dont know if it works out with other items. Like Beli already said Extension is pretty no brainer, either u need more damage to kill stuff or u need survavibility to be able to hit. | ||
Torte de Lini
Germany7680 Posts
1. My biggest complaint when I played Drow Ranger was the amount of ganks happening and the inability to do anything. Since we don't max Gust nor get Shadow Blade, we would essentially just die whether we were doing Ancients, Jungling or even defending in lane. 2. If we're split-pushing or farming for our Core Items, generally avoiding fights unless it is a sure thing (a la Spectre), why are we maxing Frost Arrows first? Especially with a lot of heroes opting for Blink Dagger or having some escape that really makes Frost Arrows almost null. That's my confusion and ultimately why I geared this build to a 2015-pubbish play hero: Originally, Item-wise: it feel late-game'ish goal-oriented: RoA -> Helm -> Yasha -> BKB -> Manta Style but Skill-wise: Frost Arrows into Precision Aura. I want Drow Ranger to have one path and for it to be the most straight-forward in terms of goals or role. I understand that is just against the nature of Dota regardless. I personally prefer: Maxing Frost Arrows, 1 point in E and maxing Gust second. I updated the Drow Ranger build Skill Build is unchanged until something's decided | ||
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