In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 254

On December 22 2015 13:42 Birdie wrote:

So situational though, it really depends. I don't think it matters which you put first in the guide, as long as you have both at level 2. If they need the guide to decide what then probably fireblast is better because there are more situations where you need it first than ignite.

On December 22 2015 18:24 Velzi wrote:
Agree on lvl1 ignite over fireblast, and i would max q over w too @lvl7, just the amount of surprise burst u can get with multicast is enough of a reason to max fireblast. E: seems like u are maxing q already, for some reason i thought we had max w there. Whether u get value point in e @lvl4 or @lvl8 is situational, both are just fine.

For Spectre, if lane is really tough i like to go either Mask of Death or full MoM, if lane is okey then just Ring of Health. If lane is really tough and u cant transition to jungle for whatever reason and u have to farm lane, then full Vanguard.

Treads are imo better choice on Spectre in almost any circumstances but thats just my prefs on almost any hero.

Silencer Mid has value point in q @4 and then maxes q over w? What the. I would get 1 lvl in all skills (wqe or weq) and then max r>e>w>q. Last Word doesnt scale enough imo to justify 2 points in it before opening all skills to get maximum damage output @lvl3. Maxing Last Word makes sense to get lower cooldown (from 30 to 12) but lower cooldown doesnt do anything @lvl3 when u get ganked / u fight face to face with enemy mid.

Maxing "nukes" over orb makes sense if u are support but with the lvls and farm u should have with mid silencer maxing w is so strong. And i dont know if we want to have Silencer Lane as a farmer, rather support silencer (where maxing r>e>q>w with value point in w for lane harass). I dont really think silencer should be the main right clicker in ur team, he aint that strong to justify pos1 safelane farm. Solo safelane is fine but u wont see solo safelanes in pubs almost never.

Atos Enigma? Naah i dont really think thats a good idea, u farm reasonably fast after ur core that u should try to either save up for hex or refresher or octarine at that point. Pipe seems really really situational too (i mean really situational, dont know if it should be in the guide either).

KOTL could have earlier point in Mana Leak, its such a strong laning skill it should be lvled earlier (maybe qeew or qwee?)

Zeus has Aghs on Extension, i like the item Description for the Aghs but people still build Arcanes Aghs and think why they suck :< I would move Aghs as far away as possible to make sure people dont build it as first major item, i dont know how we do that but it just sucks so much.

On December 22 2015 21:08 BluemoonSC wrote:


what situations would you prefer fireblast over ignite in a level 1 fight at, lets say, the rune?

oh and leveling q/e together on arc warden isn't great @ mid. realistically, the slow is the only thing that matters as you're maxing your e, casting flux on someone headed for the rune and nuking them with multiple casts of E is much better than having 2 points in each IMO.

is bottle in the mid guide? can't check this morning while im at work

ive been playing a bunch of him lately to get a better understanding. the hero is stroooooong.

I wanna start experimenting with my followup to midas necro bots blink. I like the rapiers but I don't trust myself yet. I played against a PA, but I don't think MKB is the play? just rat?

On December 23 2015 04:07 Torte de Lini wrote:


I can change to Power Treads; since we're aiming late-game, it might be better

let me take another look, I want to update both guides as a whole

rod of atos as situational Items is no big deal imp

feels like some people are skipping it and maxing chakra overall. Thoughts?

we'll just remove Aghs



Arc Warden: Im going to wait for the meta to play out

On December 23 2015 06:37 Velzi wrote:
For Example Wagamama builds both Treads and Phase on spectre and trend seems to be if treads, then radi first, if phase, then vanguard->radi. Agree on tho with maxing desolate means phase is better at that point, but still falls off later.

Im not really sold on maxing q on silencer but i guess i have to play a bit more of it (might be something to do with the fact that whenever i see silencer enemy picks slark lc pl or any purge instantly to make maxing q less optimal). Either im overestimating his w or u are underestimating it

E: maxing q or w makes difference on lvls 7-10 yeah? So lets say u have 70 int that point (lvl7, 52base+int treads+null+wand f.e.) every point in w increases ur autoattack damage by: 0,2x70 = 14. With lvl1 glaives u get 21+ damage and with lvl4 glaives 63, seems pretty good to me.

Agree on Zeus, maxing w rarely fucks up where as not maxing it can hurt a lot. Didnt realize there is mobility item earlier, blink is my thing but thats just me again.

On December 23 2015 06:37 Velzi wrote:
Im not really sold on maxing q on silencer but i guess i have to play a bit more of it (might be something to do with the fact that whenever i see silencer enemy picks slark lc pl or any purge instantly to make maxing q less optimal). Either im overestimating his w or u are underestimating it

On December 23 2015 00:01 Logo wrote:


That's my favorite Ogre build too.

Technically 3 W an 2 Q will on average do slightly more damage, but with 3 Q you can roll the dice better so I think 3-2-0-1 -> 4-2-1-1 is better.

On December 23 2015 06:38 Belisarius wrote:
I think aghs zeus is fine, personally. The hero snowballs incredibly easily in a pub and a big pile of reliable, instant damage on the backline is hard to screw up.

I agree something like blink/euls->later aghs/rfo is better than going naked arcanes aghs, but I don't think it should be removed.

Also, bloodstone core is really not on. I think at least one of the mobility items should be in core to make it clear they're essential.

On December 23 2015 06:11 BluemoonSC wrote:


RE: spectre treads vs phase - your current build maxes desolate before maxing dagger. phase is better here because you will not be able to catch anyone running away from you after you reality into a fight with lvl 1 dagger (but you'll do more dmg per attack). or rather, it will be more difficult. if you max dagger first, the treads are good for more attack speed and thus more desolate dmg via more attacks. which, considering the addition of the iron talon, is probably enticing ATM. i would wait a little longer before making this change and see if we can find any trends among high level dotabuff spectre players.

RE: mid build - if you're mid, you will likely be going midas first into whatever items are appropriate for the game (highly situational). the slow on last word will trigger if it ticks to duration will allow you to orb and bully heroes like crazy.

with the new Q, im gonna say you still want to max your Q before W tho. W's potency is felt when you have more int, right? so what purpose does it serve if you don't have the int to back it up (which you won't until later in the game). the midas levels will make this happen pretty quickly.

more importantly, leveling Q lines the spell up with your last word CD. you can probably force heroes into stupidly strong positions, forcing them to cast spells and increase the duration of the debuff AND dealing more dmg. i still think r>e>q>w with a value point in your orb early (1-1-1-0) is the go-to.

you should never overlook a value mana leak point. its a percentage based spell and if you pair him with someone that plays aggressively in lane and has a spell that forces you to gtfo or get fucked (bristleback, jugg to name a few) that point will easily secure a kill. oh and you get a 1.5 second stun AFTER you forced them to gtfo and lose all their mana. GL laning against that bullshit lol

yeah i think the best way to stop noobs from building it is to just remove it. if they are looking for it because they think its a good game for it, they prolly don't need the item guide. also save me from wanting to murder my mid zeus and DO NOT have them build bloodstone first.. please have them pick up some form of mobility item like a blink or a force or a euls with bloodstone + octarine in extension items? players that are not familiar with the item do not understand its purpose and wind up contributing nothing to the team during a fight other than an ult (if you're fortunate enough to have them paying attention).

additionally, glimmer cape has no place in mid-zeus guides. bots also needs to be further down in the list. finally, that 2nd point in arc lightning is entirely situational. 1-4-1-1 is probably the best cookie cutter. if you know when to pick up the 2nd point, you don't need the guide. you combine that with a bloodstone build and TBH your itemization does not match the skill build you've selected.

i can tell i played with a person using your guide because, to be quite honest, he was the most useless mid i've ever seen.

On December 23 2015 04:52 Logo wrote:
Is Windranger on the list at all for an update? I feel like 6.86 not changing WR's item evaluation much should be the last straw for the Maelstorm/Force staff build, though both are still situational pick ups probably. Blink/Aghs seems like it should definitely be the core and has been for awhile now so it seems stable.

On December 23 2015 08:41 TheYango wrote:

Silencer's new Q is a huge AoE. Who cares if 1 person purges it if you got 3-4 other people?

Obviously it's worse for single-target damage, but that hero is bad at ganking/catching people to begin with. You pick the hero because you want to teamfight with Global, that's basically the entire point of having the hero.

On December 23 2015 11:46 Logo wrote:


I think it's sort of fine too in the sense that a player who works better with aghs + damage is likely to just skip the blink dagger because it's too complicated for them to deal with.

On December 23 2015 08:18 BluemoonSC wrote:


Ya but then your last word is level 1 so what good is the right click without the slow? And you're on a 30s cd. Overall, last word is guaranteed dmg,silence, and the potential slow..not worth the trade off on right click an a later q/e combo when heroes are getting their bkb/manta.

On December 23 2015 12:55 Logo wrote:
I'm lost, you quoted me about Windranger then said something that seems to apply more to Zeus. I was saying for WR putting Aghs->Blink is good as core because newbies who don't like blink daggers will just go to a dmg item and those that don't know should get used to using blink if they want to play WR.