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As far as the decision of which to actually get first, it's yet another decision that's going to be right/wrong a bunch of the time either way and which a new player has basically zero hope of actually judging correctly.
On June 02 2015 00:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
I would argue the reverse + the current meta calling for Orchid over Bloodstone.
Not really, Orchid and Bloodstone as first item are both relatively common, and Bloodstone is more core in that it's much more likely to buy Bloodstone after Orchid than it is to buy Orchid after Bloodstone (since often when you finish Bloodstone, you want some impactful later items like Sheep or BKB right after).
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When it comes to going Bloodstone first, I am hesitant and feel Orchid offers a lot more earlier on than Bloodstone does; in consideration with your team's line-up where disables and extra amp. damage work out better than yourself being able to solo someone (potentially, if you play SS well which is assumed untrue for most subscribers)
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i mean orchid is the solo-someone item not bloodstone
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On June 02 2015 00:34 Sn0_Man wrote:
i mean orchid is the solo-someone item not bloodstone
What I'm suggesting is that Orchid offers more solo and as a team than Bloodstone.
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I updated Storm Spirit's skill build, but a situational point in W at 7-8-9 also sounds worthwhile in adding.
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I don't think that gyro build is right at all
if you are doing a missile-focused build mid then u want it maxed by 7 or at least level 3 at 5
if you aren't then you really need a value point in flak for the ability to damage at range and jungle clearing before level 10
look u can do whatever u want for storm the fact is good players are buying bloodstone first not orchid end of story.
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On June 02 2015 00:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
I don't think that gyro build is right at all
if you are doing a missile-focused build mid then u want it maxed by 7 or at least level 3 at 5
if you aren't then you really need a value point in flak for the ability to damage at range and jungle clearing before level 10
look u can do whatever u want for storm the fact is good players are buying bloodstone first not orchid end of story.
I misassumed that Rocket Barrage was first. I'll fix it.
Here's a sample in the last 3 major events from 1 month to now.
The International
6 Bloodstone
3 Orchid
G-League
2 Bloodstone
1 Orchid
DreamLeague
4 Bloodstone
6 Orchid
The Summit 3
1 Eul's
8 Bloodstone
1 Orchid
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If you're not getting rank 3 Vortex as soon as possible, you're more likely to take rank 2 Remnant at 4 and rank 1 Vortex at 8.
That said, related to a prior discussion, I think it's wholly unproductive to have a new player guide have 4-1-4 as the default for Storm, because that relies somewhat on using Ball Lightning effectively to get Remnant hits without the need for Vortex. A new player who is not proficient at doing this is better off being 2-3-4 at 11.
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On June 02 2015 01:56 TheYango wrote:
If you're not getting rank 3 Vortex as soon as possible, you're more likely to take rank 2 Remnant at 4 and rank 1 Vortex at 8.
That said, related to a prior discussion, I think it's wholly unproductive to have a new player guide have 4-1-4 as the default for Storm, because that relies somewhat on using Ball Lightning effectively to get Remnant hits without the need for Vortex. A new player who is not proficient at doing this is better off being 2-3-4 at 11.
I think we faced a similar situation before where we had to decide whether we are upholding what would be best to ease new players in or give them what they're expecting out of a guide (to answer: How do I play Storm Spirit?)
We faced a similar conundrum with another hero a few months back and I recall I went the more conventional route over ease of play.
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On January 10 2015 07:56 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 06:57 Torte de Lini wrote:
Even without the full combo being executed well, the extra damage early on will help with laning and subsequently his early ganks after hitting ~6
It's not extra damage in ganks unless you combo perfectly. If you don't combo perfectly, you actually LOSE damage relative to 1-3-1, because rank 1 Vortex is 140 damage, and going from rank 1 to rank 3 Overload is 40 damage over 2 ranks, meaning you have to hit 4 Overload hits in order to make up for not being able to pull them into the Remnant (more if you consider that the difference in disable duration gives you an extra regular autoattack or so). That basically requires you to combo perfectly because at low levels, you won't get the chance to just throw in a bunch of extra ult jumps for more Overload damage since you won't have the mana for it (or you have to position yourself really well so that they end up bumping the remnant regardless, but that also requires really good positioning and proficiency at the hero). 1-1-4-1 isn't categorically better--it assumes relatively high proficiency with the hero for its superiority to be realized. Otherwise, it actually is losing out to having 3 pull early in a lot of ways, because as I said, pull is just more idiot-proof.
Here's your original argument
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On February 01 2015 05:04 Torte de Lini wrote:If I can get this Juggernaut build to work, I will update it. I thought a lot about the two sides: - Do I want to keep in frame my user base's level of play and objective of these guides (to showcase and teach you how to play a hero the "standard way"?
- Or do I want to uphold what the current "standard" is?
In the end, it's about the current standard. While I understand the change from the current Juggernaut build to this new one is completely contrasting and from two sides, the idea of upholding the "current standard" overlaps with the user base's ultimate desire to play the hero the way it was intended to play (at the moment). By keeping it in an outdated form, I contradict both the original intention of this project and betray the underlying interest of people subscribing to the hero (which can be spurred by competitive play, streams or recent discussions). So I'll finalize the guide stats, stream some Jugger matches then update the guide tonight.
Here's what I said, so I'll adjust Storm in the same vein of argument
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Storm Spirit is properly updated now to reflect the ideal way to play him
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Early game needs wand and SR.
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On June 02 2015 04:58 Sn0_Man wrote:
pl link broke
yeah fuck its annoying me like crazy thnak you
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