Since we have all of those politics/economics mega-threads I thought it was quite warranted to create one specifically for China as stuff that's going down there is really absurd.
I've been following the developments there ever since before COVID went global and a lot has happened but let's just look at the most recent events:
1. No more freedom of religion in Hong Kong. They've also arrested a 90 year old Catholic cardinal. 2. 0 COVID policy is getting ridiculous, you have millions of people locked in their homes in big cities like Shanghai or even entire provinces. The thing is, lockdown should last 14 days but whenever someone in your building tests positive for COVID they reset the counter for the whole building. Now they've reset the counter for everyone, just because. Some people have been locked up for 2 months now. Potentially more people will die from starvation or suicide than would ever die if there were absolutely no measures implemented against COVID. Another thing is that this caused the biggest port in the world to be closed, which will severely disrupt supply chains on a global scale. 3. Most Chinese people can no longer leave the country. Their passports are being shredded, as well as foreign green cards. 4. A lot of businesses are moving out of China and setting up shop elsewhere (Vietnam mostly), which will probably have huge impact on Chinese economy. 5. China and Eritreia are the only countries in the world who voted against UN investigation into potential war crimes in the Russian/Ukrainian war. 6. The official US policy on Taiwan has changed. The Department of State has changed its Taiwan relationship website. The sentence "The US does not support Taiwan independence." has been removed.
And that's just a few of the recent news coming from there. It's actually pretty scary reading/hearing all about it and what it will all lead to. Potential uprising when people can no longer stand being oppressed so much? CCP has even banned the first line of Chinese national anthem from the Internet and media as people started shouting it out aloud from their windows when locked up (the line in English reads "Stand up! Those who refuse to be slaves!").
I wonder what are other people's thoughts on the current situation in China and where will it lead potentially.
As the vassal of China it has gotten bad enough that north Korea is admitting there is an outbreak in the country now. That's super bad for both sides.
Yeah those Hong Kong protests were huge, until Covid hit and the harsh lockdowns killed them off.Its been downhill fast for HK since then.
As for the new lockdowns in Shanghai I did mention them on the coronavirus thread a few weeks back but nobody really posts there anymore.You still get a few people that support lockdowns but I doubt you’ll find any outside China supporting the insanity happening in Shanghai.
Another subject that's quite fascinating, how shitty apartments in China are worth millions of US dollars while at the same time there's thousands of apartment complexes that are completely empty.
I have to wonder if those lockdowns are logistically worth it? Like, living in America during the Trump administration, I was kinda envious how serious China was taking the disease, being able to build hospitals in days to maintain the crisis while we had so much red states completely ignoring the crisis and the federal government doin absolutely nothing.
The thing with a pandemic though is, drastic measures look exactly like adequate measures, when we’re dealing with a exponentially spreading virus.
At the start they made sense considering the huge loss of life and large uncertainties surrounding Covid. But especially since there are good vaccines and there's been enough time to vaccinate they don't make much sense anymore. China's zero covid strategy made a lot of sense to buy time to fully vaccinate with good vaccines but they didn't do the last part. For whatever reason they don't use the best (western) vaccines and aren't willing to mandate vaccines for the elderly even though they have no problem locking everyone down in their homes for months. So they're stuck in perpetual lockdowns without a good way out.
On May 17 2022 17:00 RvB wrote: At the start they made sense considering the huge loss of life and large uncertainties surrounding Covid. But especially since there are good vaccines and there's been enough time to vaccinate they don't make much sense anymore. China's zero covid strategy made a lot of sense to buy time to fully vaccinate with good vaccines but they didn't do the last part. For whatever reason they don't use the best (western) vaccines and aren't willing to mandate vaccines for the elderly even though they have no problem locking everyone down in their homes for months. So they're stuck in perpetual lockdowns without a good way out.
They don't use western vaccines because of ideological differences. The Party, having relentlessly advertised the supremacy of the "Chinese system" to its people, cannot be seen to rely on evil western imperialists for vaccines.
On May 14 2022 18:38 Manit0u wrote: Since we have all of those politics/economics mega-threads I thought it was quite warranted to create one specifically for China as stuff that's going down there is really absurd.
I've been following the developments there ever since before COVID went global and a lot has happened but let's just look at the most recent events:
1. No more freedom of religion in Hong Kong. They've also arrested a 90 year old Catholic cardinal. 2. 0 COVID policy is getting ridiculous, you have millions of people locked in their homes in big cities like Shanghai or even entire provinces. The thing is, lockdown should last 14 days but whenever someone in your building tests positive for COVID they reset the counter for the whole building. Now they've reset the counter for everyone, just because. Some people have been locked up for 2 months now. Potentially more people will die from starvation or suicide than would ever die if there were absolutely no measures implemented against COVID. Another thing is that this caused the biggest port in the world to be closed, which will severely disrupt supply chains on a global scale. 3. Most Chinese people can no longer leave the country. Their passports are being shredded, as well as foreign green cards. 4. A lot of businesses are moving out of China and setting up shop elsewhere (Vietnam mostly), which will probably have huge impact on Chinese economy. 5. China and Eritreia are the only countries in the world who voted against UN investigation into potential war crimes in the Russian/Ukrainian war. 6. The official US policy on Taiwan has changed. The Department of State has changed its Taiwan relationship website. The sentence "The US does not support Taiwan independence." has been removed.
And that's just a few of the recent news coming from there. It's actually pretty scary reading/hearing all about it and what it will all lead to. Potential uprising when people can no longer stand being oppressed so much? CCP has even banned the first line of Chinese national anthem from the Internet and media as people started shouting it out aloud from their windows when locked up (the line in English reads "Stand up! Those who refuse to be slaves!").
I wonder what are other people's thoughts on the current situation in China and where will it lead potentially.
Well now I have some time to respond to your "sacry" hearings, This post could lead to a ban (if it did happen, check the last centence of answer 1.)
1. I search on chinese website, there is indeed a piece of news about this story, and his church is not really some serious church as we all know, and US is founding those "anti-china" groups or organizations as always. Usually, as a common chinese I don't really care about what happend in HK, you know ，China is as big as Europe, so a cardinal arrested in HK is not as interesting as news like "some urkrainian refregee got raped in poland". You got such information from CNN or whatever western papers, you don't really know what really happened and feel scary for some unknow reason? you can call me or any chinese "brain-washed", well, how do you know you are not? can you find enough rus-urk war news from the rus side? information-block happens everywhere ,even on a game forum.
2.why 0 COVID policy is ridiculous? because we are not behave the same way with you, so we are ridiculous? CNN reported a million death caused by covid in the US, if china lay down like other countries, at least 5million death would be expected....the goverment care about people's lives, is that wrong? oh, you might find it not "free" , but under some serious circumstances personal freedom need to be constrained for the great objectives, my city got a 2 week lockdown, I don't complain about that, I didn't see anyone around get mad about the policy. remeber days ago some 18year-old kid kill 10+ with a rifle in newyork state? that is really impressive freedom
3. I checked the news,it is a rumor, and offically refuted, my passport is staying in a drawer, and I will not have any plan to travel around in such days.
4. That is a truth, but the impact is not that huge .
5. I checked on chinese website, because I was curious where are the russians ,it is true. China has her own opinion on the whole event. Well, this is hard to explain, but I believe, russia, as a weak country in recent 30 years, are not willing to start a war, unless she is pushed to the last standing point?
6. I don't really care about the American policy. if a war is not avoidable between China and U.S, it will be a true desarster to everyone.
I don't smell any "scary" things are closing, and if you are a polish, shouldn't you worry about the war on your door, rather than a remote country in the orient
sorry for my cutting words, I am not really good at this language.
On May 17 2022 17:00 RvB wrote: At the start they made sense considering the huge loss of life and large uncertainties surrounding Covid. But especially since there are good vaccines and there's been enough time to vaccinate they don't make much sense anymore. China's zero covid strategy made a lot of sense to buy time to fully vaccinate with good vaccines but they didn't do the last part. For whatever reason they don't use the best (western) vaccines and aren't willing to mandate vaccines for the elderly even though they have no problem locking everyone down in their homes for months. So they're stuck in perpetual lockdowns without a good way out.
They don't use western vaccines because of ideological differences. The Party, having relentlessly advertised the supremacy of the "Chinese system" to its people, cannot be seen to rely on evil western imperialists for vaccines.
Can't they just copy western vaccines and sell under new name like they do with everything else?
On May 17 2022 17:00 RvB wrote: At the start they made sense considering the huge loss of life and large uncertainties surrounding Covid. But especially since there are good vaccines and there's been enough time to vaccinate they don't make much sense anymore. China's zero covid strategy made a lot of sense to buy time to fully vaccinate with good vaccines but they didn't do the last part. For whatever reason they don't use the best (western) vaccines and aren't willing to mandate vaccines for the elderly even though they have no problem locking everyone down in their homes for months. So they're stuck in perpetual lockdowns without a good way out.
They don't use western vaccines because of ideological differences. The Party, having relentlessly advertised the supremacy of the "Chinese system" to its people, cannot be seen to rely on evil western imperialists for vaccines.
Can't they just copy western vaccines and sell under new name like they do with everything else?
They don't yet have mRNA technology, they're trying but clinical trials haven't passed yet.
On May 17 2022 17:00 RvB wrote: At the start they made sense considering the huge loss of life and large uncertainties surrounding Covid. But especially since there are good vaccines and there's been enough time to vaccinate they don't make much sense anymore. China's zero covid strategy made a lot of sense to buy time to fully vaccinate with good vaccines but they didn't do the last part. For whatever reason they don't use the best (western) vaccines and aren't willing to mandate vaccines for the elderly even though they have no problem locking everyone down in their homes for months. So they're stuck in perpetual lockdowns without a good way out.
They don't use western vaccines because of ideological differences. The Party, having relentlessly advertised the supremacy of the "Chinese system" to its people, cannot be seen to rely on evil western imperialists for vaccines.
The official propaganda states that western vaccines are not suited for Chinese physiology...
On May 17 2022 15:33 lestye wrote: I have to wonder if those lockdowns are logistically worth it? Like, living in America during the Trump administration, I was kinda envious how serious China was taking the disease, being able to build hospitals in days to maintain the crisis while we had so much red states completely ignoring the crisis and the federal government doin absolutely nothing.
The thing with a pandemic though is, drastic measures look exactly like adequate measures, when we’re dealing with a exponentially spreading virus.
Lockdowns are good if implemented right. Just look how Vietnam or New Zealand have cracked down on COVID in the beginning, employing strict distancing, masks etc. and they had 1-2 new cases daily instead of thousands.
What China is doing now is serious overkill, especially that it has led to the collapse of food delivery systems and now people under lockdown are potentially dying of starvation. Some westerners (who have preferential treatment) that got caught in it were reporting that they get food delivered but it's like once a week or two and you get a bag of rotten vegetables. Hardly something you can subsist on for extended periods of time.
And regarding those hospitals that were built in days, I don't think any of them have actually been functional. People who have recently been moved to such facilities have posted some disturbing images with people in beds covered with tarp or plastic because the rain is literally pouring down on them etc.
China has been increasing their coal use and is one of the few countries that is still actively building coal power plants. These are one of, if not the, worst forms of a energy for humanity to use to power itself. China has said it will peak its carbon pollution by before 2030 and then work toward carbon neutrality. While this is still possible this increase in coal is going to make it much harder to achieve either and WAY more expensive.
China Currently produces 29.18% (7.38 per capita) of the worlds Co2 and that is rising (Us is 2 and 14.02 (15.52 per capita), India at 7.09 (1.91 per capita) and Russia at 4.65 (11.44 per capita).
Here is a long article for those interested. It contains both critics and very optimistic government sources. It discusses the whys behind the continued rise of coal and when it may stop, China's announced environmental goals and a whole host of other topics.
On May 17 2022 17:00 RvB wrote: At the start they made sense considering the huge loss of life and large uncertainties surrounding Covid. But especially since there are good vaccines and there's been enough time to vaccinate they don't make much sense anymore. China's zero covid strategy made a lot of sense to buy time to fully vaccinate with good vaccines but they didn't do the last part. For whatever reason they don't use the best (western) vaccines and aren't willing to mandate vaccines for the elderly even though they have no problem locking everyone down in their homes for months. So they're stuck in perpetual lockdowns without a good way out.
They don't use western vaccines because of ideological differences. The Party, having relentlessly advertised the supremacy of the "Chinese system" to its people, cannot be seen to rely on evil western imperialists for vaccines.
Can't they just copy western vaccines and sell under new name like they do with everything else?
They don't yet have mRNA technology, they're trying but clinical trials haven't passed yet.
Even after stealing what they can it's extremely difficult to catch up on the last 4-6 years of technology when you have the lowest percentage of college and high school educated workforce in your economic tier. Us pharmaceutical companies aren't going to open a factory in China for the vaccine knowing how it's gone for everyone else.
On May 17 2022 21:41 fakovski wrote: very interesting to digest imaginations and speculation out of the heads on the other side of the planet
I mean yeah it's hard to get uncensored media coverage out of some parts of the world. It's good to hear what they are telling you over there as much as it's for you to find out what they say over here.
On May 17 2022 22:16 JimmiC wrote: China has been increasing their coal use and is one of the few countries that is still actively building coal power plants. These are one of, if not the, worst forms of a energy for humanity to use to power itself. China has said it will peak its carbon pollution by before 2030 and then work toward carbon neutrality. While this is still possible this increase in coal is going to make it much harder to achieve either and WAY more expensive.
China Currently produces 29.18% (7.38 per capita) of the worlds Co2 and that is rising (Us is 2 and 14.02 (15.52 per capita), India at 7.09 (1.91 per capita) and Russia at 4.65 (11.44 per capita).
Here is a long article for those interested. It contains both critics and very optimistic government sources. It discusses the whys behind the continued rise of coal and when it may stop, China's announced environmental goals and a whole host of other topics.
Hmm... This seems doubly counter-productive in that China can't even meet it's own current coal demands without huge imports and they cancelled their deal with Australia for their coal which was a huge blow to their energy sector, resulting in power shortages and blackouts across the country (even some major cities need to have traffic lights and street lights turned off at night, plenty of factories can't operate etc.)
I guess this might have something to do with some of their other energy sources failing. There seems to be one nuclear power plant leaking (but it's OK as they simply increase the allowed radiation limit in the province every week or month so there's no problem, right?) and several of their dams failing (which might be quite catastrophic in case of a domino effect).
On May 17 2022 22:16 JimmiC wrote: China has been increasing their coal use and is one of the few countries that is still actively building coal power plants. These are one of, if not the, worst forms of a energy for humanity to use to power itself. China has said it will peak its carbon pollution by before 2030 and then work toward carbon neutrality. While this is still possible this increase in coal is going to make it much harder to achieve either and WAY more expensive.
China Currently produces 29.18% (7.38 per capita) of the worlds Co2 and that is rising (Us is 2 and 14.02 (15.52 per capita), India at 7.09 (1.91 per capita) and Russia at 4.65 (11.44 per capita).
Here is a long article for those interested. It contains both critics and very optimistic government sources. It discusses the whys behind the continued rise of coal and when it may stop, China's announced environmental goals and a whole host of other topics.
Hmm... This seems doubly counter-productive in that China can't even meet it's own current coal demands without huge imports and they cancelled their deal with Australia for their coal which was a huge blow to their energy sector, resulting in power shortages and blackouts across the country (even some major cities need to have traffic lights and street lights turned off at night, plenty of factories can't operate etc.)
I guess this might have something to do with some of their other energy sources failing. There seems to be one nuclear power plant leaking (but it's OK as they simply increase the allowed radiation limit in the province every week or month so there's no problem, right?) and several of their dams failing (which might be quite catastrophic in case of a domino effect).
I think it is a snap back from that event. At that time they were talking about reducing their reliance on coal. Then after the shortages they blame other countries and are now dumping tons of money into their own coal mining (likely with little of the environmental protections required in say Australia).
In February, the state economic planner also approved three “billion-dollar” coal mine projects in the country’s coal belt, which “will require a total investment of 24.1bn yuan ($3.8bn) and produce 19m tonnes of coal a year”, according to Bloomberg.
Despite a major national holiday, the Lunar New Year, coal mines around the country endeavoured to increase their production in the beginning of this year. In January and February, the country’s coal production registered a 10.3% year-on-year jump, reaching 690m tonnes, according to China’s National Bureau of Statistics. Reuters reported that the rise followed Beijing’s campaign to “ramp up production for the winter heating season”.
Across last year, China produced 4.1bn tonnes of raw coal, increasing by 5.7% year-on-year, the official annual statistical report said. The report also noted that China’s coal consumption went up by 4.6% in 2021.
Yes, that's definitely part of that. The biggest problem for them with cancelling this deal is not just the large quantities of coal imported from Australia, it was also of much higher quality than their domestic coal, which makes it even harder to replace as they have to burn much more of their own coal to achieve similar results.
