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Dota 2 7.20e - Page 2

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
34 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
HolyPepsi
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada170 Posts
December 10 2018 19:20 GMT
#21
this is fine... 7.20 is a huge change, and there is no way to anticpate how players/pro reacts to the change vs valve/icefrog prediction.... it is not just scientific numbers but meta is playing a huge role (undiscovered way to play heros, over-rated heros etc)
these balances are perfec.t
Nevuk
Profile Joined March 2009
United States9807 Posts
December 10 2018 19:27 GMT
#22
On December 11 2018 02:41 ahw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2018 02:29 Latham wrote:
On December 11 2018 02:17 Nevuk wrote:
On December 11 2018 01:09 ahw wrote:
On December 11 2018 00:42 Archeon wrote:
Imo strength is still the strongest early stat. But I agree that Null should be a bit better than WB/cost (and imo than bracer too).

Also could definitely see going 1-2 nulls then crown and then veil on multiple int cores. Veil has very good stats for the price and the lost bonus int and spell amp from null compared to crown are really minor (and you get spell amp anyways once Veil is done).
But I agree that Veil is the exception.


strength doesnt increase ur farm speed though

Well, except for strength heroes


Strength is tanking. Intelligence is supporting. Agility is farming. No exceptions, apparently.


u get twice the return on agi as you do on strength for farm speed... and wraiths have passive attack speed. it's just way more efficient.

idk this shouldnt even be an argument the meta heroes prove this

every game is mag + 1 agi cores that blows through early game on 3-4 wraiths

Oh, you're totally right. I was just being pedantic. Wraith bands do give too much to agi heroes right now, I think.
Community News
HolyPepsi
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada170 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-10 20:42:45
December 10 2018 20:41 GMT
#23
On December 11 2018 04:27 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2018 02:41 ahw wrote:
On December 11 2018 02:29 Latham wrote:
On December 11 2018 02:17 Nevuk wrote:
On December 11 2018 01:09 ahw wrote:
On December 11 2018 00:42 Archeon wrote:
Imo strength is still the strongest early stat. But I agree that Null should be a bit better than WB/cost (and imo than bracer too).

Also could definitely see going 1-2 nulls then crown and then veil on multiple int cores. Veil has very good stats for the price and the lost bonus int and spell amp from null compared to crown are really minor (and you get spell amp anyways once Veil is done).
But I agree that Veil is the exception.


strength doesnt increase ur farm speed though

Well, except for strength heroes


Strength is tanking. Intelligence is supporting. Agility is farming. No exceptions, apparently.


u get twice the return on agi as you do on strength for farm speed... and wraiths have passive attack speed. it's just way more efficient.

idk this shouldnt even be an argument the meta heroes prove this

every game is mag + 1 agi cores that blows through early game on 3-4 wraiths

Oh, you're totally right. I was just being pedantic. Wraith bands do give too much to agi heroes right now, I think.


also due to fact that TP almost not taking any slot...
after the nerfs 3x wraith band still gave agi heros:
162 health
3.6 armor
40.5 attack speed (from 46.5 ias)
1% movespeed
108 mana
18 damage (from 24 dmg)

cost 1545

this is still really good to pass.. (almost like mini butterfly)




Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
1717 Posts
December 11 2018 13:10 GMT
#24
On December 11 2018 01:09 ahw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2018 00:42 Archeon wrote:
Imo strength is still the strongest early stat. But I agree that Null should be a bit better than WB/cost (and imo than bracer too).

Also could definitely see going 1-2 nulls then crown and then veil on multiple int cores. Veil has very good stats for the price and the lost bonus int and spell amp from null compared to crown are really minor (and you get spell amp anyways once Veil is done).
But I agree that Veil is the exception.


strength doesnt increase ur farm speed though

Strength allows you to brawl much better though, so it's generally the much better stat on any hero that does so.

Obviously the bonus damage from main stat does a lot for any hero and I agree that WB is good in the reemerging trilane meta due to the now bonus +13.5 AS, but in general I'd rather have +67.5hp than +13.5 AS on any hero that's brawling on occasion.
low gravity, yes-yes!
ahw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada891 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-11 16:00:47
December 11 2018 15:54 GMT
#25
On December 11 2018 22:10 Archeon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2018 01:09 ahw wrote:
On December 11 2018 00:42 Archeon wrote:
Imo strength is still the strongest early stat. But I agree that Null should be a bit better than WB/cost (and imo than bracer too).

Also could definitely see going 1-2 nulls then crown and then veil on multiple int cores. Veil has very good stats for the price and the lost bonus int and spell amp from null compared to crown are really minor (and you get spell amp anyways once Veil is done).
But I agree that Veil is the exception.


strength doesnt increase ur farm speed though

Strength allows you to brawl much better though, so it's generally the much better stat on any hero that does so.

Obviously the bonus damage from main stat does a lot for any hero and I agree that WB is good in the reemerging trilane meta due to the now bonus +13.5 AS, but in general I'd rather have +67.5hp than +13.5 AS on any hero that's brawling on occasion.


That’s the thing about Dota though

You can always dodge fights and farm, that’s why farm accelerating items are king

It’s a lot harder to get a return on hp tems


Maybe a better way to phrase that — you have to commit to a fight / push / gank to get any value out of bracers, where agi items are more useful during a normal / passive game
M.S.Bismarck
Profile Joined December 2015
United States1711 Posts
December 11 2018 20:10 GMT
#26
It certainly doesn’t help that Strength carries aren’t good right now aside from maybe Huskar (who is pretty obnoxious with multiple Bracers). The Agility carries just seem to get more out of their stats and also happen to be more farm oriented to begin with.
NO MORE CHEN NERFS!!!
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
1717 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-12 11:25:59
December 12 2018 11:23 GMT
#27
On December 12 2018 00:54 ahw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2018 22:10 Archeon wrote:
On December 11 2018 01:09 ahw wrote:
On December 11 2018 00:42 Archeon wrote:
Imo strength is still the strongest early stat. But I agree that Null should be a bit better than WB/cost (and imo than bracer too).

Also could definitely see going 1-2 nulls then crown and then veil on multiple int cores. Veil has very good stats for the price and the lost bonus int and spell amp from null compared to crown are really minor (and you get spell amp anyways once Veil is done).
But I agree that Veil is the exception.


strength doesnt increase ur farm speed though

Strength allows you to brawl much better though, so it's generally the much better stat on any hero that does so.

Obviously the bonus damage from main stat does a lot for any hero and I agree that WB is good in the reemerging trilane meta due to the now bonus +13.5 AS, but in general I'd rather have +67.5hp than +13.5 AS on any hero that's brawling on occasion.


That’s the thing about Dota though

You can always dodge fights and farm, that’s why farm accelerating items are king

It’s a lot harder to get a return on hp tems


Maybe a better way to phrase that — you have to commit to a fight / push / gank to get any value out of bracers, where agi items are more useful during a normal / passive game

Fair points. The fights can and will come eventually to you, but I won't argue that finishing the next big item a minute earlier beats having more strength in the fight but only parts of the item. So if you don't intend to fight before that anyways it's true that WB will pay off more.

Offlane and mid cores will fight a lot on average though and tanking a nuke more can make all the difference.
low gravity, yes-yes!
crocshark
Profile Joined July 2017
107 Posts
December 13 2018 02:40 GMT
#28
At this point dota isnt very flexible anymore because how deny works. Back then you could stack jungles to compensate for very poor laning. Nowadays, its about winning lanes. Winning a lane will give huge golds advantage and some exp which translate into better items timing and more pressure. Meanwhile jungling, half of the time is just an auxiliary for further your advantage. Yes theres special exception on heroes like drow but even then its not enough. Therea so much to gain from destroying early tower. The extra vision from creeps who keep pushing, deny vision on enemy side and less movement on opponent side. The concept of dead safelane where once your t1 down, you cant farm in it unless babysitted by 2 supports. Theres so many path opponents could take to move from your safelane jungle to mid or to shutdown your safelane completely. It get even worse now because of higher elevation near the shrine. It kinda obvious you would always want to ward around that area that cover a lot of vision and harder to find. And of your opponent control that area , you will have a hard time to fight for it because the higher elevation and how shrine gives no long term advantage to find around it. Wish they apply armor buff just like they do for towers.

Most often games ended in 20 mins because of the poor items timing and theres almost no way to comeback from snowballing opponent.
ahw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada891 Posts
December 13 2018 02:50 GMT
#29
It’d be cool if they reworked the stats a bit on all of them so you weren’t totally shoehorned in to your primary stat only..

Something like +5/3/3, and then make the secondary effects stronger, and rework wraith attack speed to something more interesting like movespeed.

Basically I think it would be cool if you could use these to supplement your early game shortcomings instead of just accelerating your main attribute.



Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
1717 Posts
December 13 2018 10:52 GMT
#30
Yeah agreed, I assume that IF buffed the main stats because people just used to build a bunch of bracers when they lacked tankiness or got aquila on every pushing hero, but I would have preferred if IF just buffed Int up to par.

If int gave serious mana regen and you weren't just shoehorned into getting a mana regen item instead I could still see that. I wouldn't mind if null was a viable item on Sven or even Jugg help with their mana issues.
low gravity, yes-yes!
M.S.Bismarck
Profile Joined December 2015
United States1711 Posts
December 13 2018 14:30 GMT
#31
So I also noticed that Visage’s win rate is really high right now despite not really getting picked highly in any skill bracket. Is there something we’re missing or is he just really good when the time is right to grab him?
NO MORE CHEN NERFS!!!
ahw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada891 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-13 15:16:48
December 13 2018 15:16 GMT
#32
On December 13 2018 23:30 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
So I also noticed that Visage’s win rate is really high right now despite not really getting picked highly in any skill bracket. Is there something we’re missing or is he just really good when the time is right to grab him?


Visage wins almost every lane matchup and snowballs with pushing power, easy rosh, etc.. spikes around 25-30 mins which is avg game length now. Armor rework helps him a ton. He’s not popular the same way most summon heroes aren’t, i guess, although i think he’s way more forgiving
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1468 Posts
December 15 2018 01:28 GMT
#33
On December 13 2018 11:40 crocshark wrote:
At this point dota isnt very flexible anymore because how deny works. Back then you could stack jungles to compensate for very poor laning. Nowadays, its about winning lanes. Winning a lane will give huge golds advantage and some exp which translate into better items timing and more pressure. Meanwhile jungling, half of the time is just an auxiliary for further your advantage. Yes theres special exception on heroes like drow but even then its not enough. Therea so much to gain from destroying early tower. The extra vision from creeps who keep pushing, deny vision on enemy side and less movement on opponent side. The concept of dead safelane where once your t1 down, you cant farm in it unless babysitted by 2 supports. Theres so many path opponents could take to move from your safelane jungle to mid or to shutdown your safelane completely. It get even worse now because of higher elevation near the shrine. It kinda obvious you would always want to ward around that area that cover a lot of vision and harder to find. And of your opponent control that area , you will have a hard time to fight for it because the higher elevation and how shrine gives no long term advantage to find around it. Wish they apply armor buff just like they do for towers.

Most often games ended in 20 mins because of the poor items timing and theres almost no way to comeback from snowballing opponent.


You are not wrong. Most of my games are like 25-35 mins. And the pressure on both safelanes after a tower drops is absurd. Axe cutting waves and getting a tower down early is so fucking good.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Yurie
Profile Joined August 2010
7067 Posts
December 15 2018 11:12 GMT
#34
On December 15 2018 10:28 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2018 11:40 crocshark wrote:
At this point dota isnt very flexible anymore because how deny works. Back then you could stack jungles to compensate for very poor laning. Nowadays, its about winning lanes. Winning a lane will give huge golds advantage and some exp which translate into better items timing and more pressure. Meanwhile jungling, half of the time is just an auxiliary for further your advantage. Yes theres special exception on heroes like drow but even then its not enough. Therea so much to gain from destroying early tower. The extra vision from creeps who keep pushing, deny vision on enemy side and less movement on opponent side. The concept of dead safelane where once your t1 down, you cant farm in it unless babysitted by 2 supports. Theres so many path opponents could take to move from your safelane jungle to mid or to shutdown your safelane completely. It get even worse now because of higher elevation near the shrine. It kinda obvious you would always want to ward around that area that cover a lot of vision and harder to find. And of your opponent control that area , you will have a hard time to fight for it because the higher elevation and how shrine gives no long term advantage to find around it. Wish they apply armor buff just like they do for towers.

Most often games ended in 20 mins because of the poor items timing and theres almost no way to comeback from snowballing opponent.


You are not wrong. Most of my games are like 25-35 mins. And the pressure on both safelanes after a tower drops is absurd. Axe cutting waves and getting a tower down early is so fucking good.


Most of mines end up around 40-50 mins. Of course there are stomps in either direction but they are rare when playing party games, more common in solo ranked.
ahw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada891 Posts
December 15 2018 14:03 GMT
#35
My average game time has gone up since the last few patches, but it’s still around 30 mins.
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