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Hello Liquid Dota! :D
That is probably as nice as I will be in this blog. Why? I am upset to the ultimate level at this mmr system in dota 2. Why am I upset/salty/annoyed/tiredoflosing? That will be explained shortly. Also this is my first blog/rant blog so please be nice
Here is my dota buff to look at matches, etc. for feedback (mind you some are completely useless as they were unranked and I was playing with buddies doing goofy strats, but I will still take feedback)
dota buff profile
INTRO Let me start out by giving a little bit of background to my dota "career" (if you will). I have been playing this game probably for 3 years now. I have roughly 1,700 hours of solid gameplay, and for whatever reason for the life of me CANNOT, repeat cannot make it out of low 3k mmr (first rant of many). I thought the formula for success to becoming a better player was 1) watch what pros do (not just simply watch and learn movements but WATCH EVERYTHING down to the letter - i.e. ward placement, roshan timers, map control, and the list goes on). Taking what I thought to be the "formula of success" (as there are hundreds upon hundreds of different options to becoming "good" at dota), I decided to learn how to play support. Now, of course everyone has to start out somewhere and I did have previous MOBA experience (i.e. LoL - which is a totally different game but some concepts remain the same with dota) so I did not have very high expectations for my play. I just wanted to learn, watch, observe, and become a better player in dota. This concept in my mind went on for about two years or so, and the dreaded toxicity of dota hit me (aka competitiveness and my overall sense of a teammate towards other team members drastically changed). From being what I considered (and others considered) a "decent" player - meaning I had a general sense of the game and what to do, I completely fell off. I hit a wall in skill, confidence, and just general dota play. So, I did what many probably do at this point in their dota careers is quit. I quit for about 3 or 4 months and focused on a FPS (CS GO), which I found myself to be quite good at (on a side note).
PRESENT
Eventually, I came back to dota. I tried it out again, but this time I changed my mentality and mindset of the game. I went 19-0, just coming back in the game and brought my mmr from roughly 2.7k to 3.4k in a week. I was astonished. I had no idea I A) had it in me and B) the community changed that drastically in 4 months. I was of course proven wrong, as I dropped back below 3k just two weeks after from domination. Now here is where I get upset and angry - I did not lose skill yet lost mmr points that bad. Now for an ego statement - my mechanics are vastly superior to a 3k player, I literally win my lane every game or create space and then ultimately lose somehow. I asked myself how? I can play with my 4k buddies and completely destroy a game and then play in 2.9k and lose... It literally does not make any sense.
Rant about dota community enters here - What annoys me is that because someone is not 5k mmr they "obviously" are not skilled. This statement seems to plague my mind and players in my games. People doubt themselves to the degree in which it creates toxicity in every game. Giving first blood is "GG", dying once in lane is "YOu lost the game for us because you "fed"" bottom. It literally comes down to doubt that a game can be won even if behind, people just "give" up because they dont feel like playing anymore, or just straight troll/flame/spitting on teammates (figuratively of course) to ruin the experience of others.
Below is just one example of how upset I can be at losing sometimes... Anger
Now the usual advice that is given goes as follows: "get good noob", "you coulda done something different", "be in the mindset that loses are your fault" and etc. (just to name a few typical responses to people that have the answers) are useless and do not help for getting better or getting out of the mmr one might be in. Why? Because, in reality there are games where a player does everything possible to win and loses. Simple things like "oh you didnt farm this medium camp at 5 minutes so you lost" is not and did not contribute to a lose. If I fed a god-like streak away at 10 minutes in a game, I could at least see where I contributed to a lose. I have had games where I had 700 gpm and lost, some games are at a point where you cannot combat team feeding.
So what do I do when a lane is feeding in my game? I help them, I give constructive not bad advice but something simple like "hey there are wards in the jungle and we can protect you while you farm" instead, the player runs back out in lane and feeds 5 more deaths. How is this my fault? I cannot play the game for two people. Whats frustrating, is this happens every single game. Not just one, but every single one. The woes of 2.9k mmr. What is even more frustrating is the expectation that I have the perfect hero selected, with the perfect farm (pro level), and perfect everything in order to win. Why is the game on me if its a team game? If the player on my team forgot how to farm as a carry, I lose. If mid lane and safelane feed, but I rotate and create space, I lose.
What is the solution? I am beyond frustrated.
Note: I will probably add more to this, as I really did not touch on everything as this is my first blog and I am extremely tired.
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1- be positive, always 2- if you can't be positive, just don't say anything 3- buy wards if no one does 4- never flame, ever (people are extremely sensitive and WILL give up/throw/afk if you flame them) 5- stop people that are beginning to flame in their tracks : "no flaming" in chat usually suffices (and just that, do not enter a long debate about what flaming is or is not, no arguing either) 6- don't give up 7- help set up the lanes if they are about to do nonsensical stuff (but do not insist if they're not receptive)
The rest, the mechanics, how to farm, where to farm, what to pick, etc... are secondary.
Team morale and map control are two huge things you CAN influence.
Those basic rules are NOT a recipe for a 100% win situation, but they should at least keep the most common "losing behaviours" at bay.
***
Following these I managed to get to 4.2k solo.
Then I gave up trying to be nice, and just pushed their buttons again. It's so tempting. But, toying with my "on the verge of nervous breakdowns" "clueless" teammates only got me where I now stand, 3.2k solo.
It's not always easy to follow those simple rules... but it's paying - in MMR, at least.
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If you play position 5-6 support in pubs you will lose. Your team mates won't cover for you at lower tiers. Playing a position 4 support that can solo kill around the 10 minute mark and get some items works much much better.
I personally like Witch Doctor. Abaddon is probably the best though since you can semi carry if needed.
On that point. Play only a few heroes. The more you play the less mmr you will advance with your skill. Each hero takes time to learn to play better than the enemy plays their heroes. If you always random you will be lower mmr than grinding one of the top heroes on the dotabuff win%.
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I'm going to give the typical answers, honestly. You're not "way better than a 3k player", otherwise you wouldn't be at 3k. You link a dotabuff where you go 17-4-9 on Ursa and lose, but fail to note that the following game you go 8-9-9 on Riki but win. Score doesn't mean everything, it's conceivable you were more useful to your team in that Riki game than you were in the Ursa game.
If you want the shitty not-gonna-help-you-improve answer, just spam the vogue/OP heroes, troll, axe, jugg, try to win the game without your team, if you're that much better, you'll rise MMR.
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As you say, often 3k allies are terrible and will feed continually given the chance. I've tried playing a defensive supports but saving them once or twice is only delaying the inevitable, and since games often go very late in 3k mmr playing a support who drops off late is also risky since it places the outcome of the game heavily into the hands of your allies.
Personally I recommend playing Skywrath when against 3k mmr players and supporting, since he can have a high level of impact all game (excellent harass in lane, space creator and solo pickoffs mid game, decent control and dps late game). It's not unusual that I'll go around 12-4-12 from a supporting role where I buy courier + wards all game. Tip; invest first into 2 nulls and a wand for the larger mana pool, if you don't you will struggle to get kills without landing the perfect flare and if you miss more than a couple of kills your window to stay relevant will close.
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I know it can be frustrating to play with feeders, but I am really sure that the MMR system is NOT out to get you and make your life miserable. I am convinced it tries to match people of equal skill, and while there is some random variance, in general it mostly works out.
But there are several things that may cause you to lose in that bracket.
1) Maybe you are just bad at playing with bad people? For example Ursa might seem like a good idea to stomp the enemy team, but he is pretty bad at finishing out the game (bad pusher) and can easily be kited later in the game. If your skill (mechanics, positioning, decision making) is indeed much higher than for most of the players in your bracket, you might to either play a hero with higher mobility or at least range (ember, storm, sf, tinker, weaver,...) or a hero that can finish the game (i.e. troll, or core leshrac who, from my experience in bot-stomping, is one of the best heroes to 1v5). The suggestion to play an aggressive support like Skywrath also seems reasonable. And if your supports don't buy wards, get them yourself
2) Or you are overestimating yourself. Mechanics are not everything, there is also decision-making, where it is very hard to judge your own skill (see the Dunning-Kruger effect; I myself have no clue most the time if/where my decision making is bad).
Anyway, don't give up
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Don't play when you're frustrated, it's so obvious, you stop dota for a long time, you come back and you have a huge win streak, you tilt, surely flame your mates and then you go loss after loss. Use the mute button and encourage others to do so.
Read this blog www.liquiddota.com.
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That blog is actually much better advice than mine i think ^^
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SoCal8898 Posts
the problem is that everyone has an ego bc you're just an anonymous stranger, so listening to you makes zero sense.
so overcoming other players' egos is difficult. sometimes you're just in a bad game and you need to move along without going on tilt. look at the things you did well that game and realize that you're playing a 5v5 not a 1v5.
as long as you can say "I did the best I could," there's not much else you can ask of yourself.
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On March 04 2015 02:27 BluemoonSC wrote: the problem is that everyone has an ego bc you're just an anonymous stranger, so listening to you makes zero sense.
so overcoming other players' egos is difficult. sometimes you're just in a bad game and you need to move along without going on tilt. look at the things you did well that game and realize that you're playing a 5v5 not a 1v5.
as long as you can say "I did the best I could," there's not much else you can ask of yourself.
It seems like people only listen to the carry in my bracket, I only have 50 ranked games, but 700 I unranked so I don't know what my exact mmr would be. When I play carry people will listen to me and then people friend me afterwards, but not my the support or mid from my 3 stack who set me up to carry. When do people start listening to the people at position 3-5? When I tell people to stop flaming and I'm a support they ignore me, but if I'm a carry they let me make strategy calls and actually listen.
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Literally the only way I ever win ranked games:
1) Hi, we need 2 supports. I can play VS if needed. Can someone else support with me? 2) First pick VS 3) Buy Wards (and courrier if nobody does) 4) Run around feeding everyone Tangoes/Salves, telling people it's my fault whenever anything bad happens, and assuring them that our team is superior than theirs and we can get back into the game if we stick together and play well 5) Stop teammates from arguing by telling them that we'll do much better if we work together and that anything that goes wrong is always my fault
Basically I babysit my team for 45 minutes. I have near 100% win rate with this strategy. It can get really boring, but if you want to grind MMR playing "team cheerleader" isn't a bad idea.
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On March 04 2015 04:55 DinoMight wrote: Literally the only way I ever win ranked games:
2) First pick VS
Basically I babysit my team for 45 minutes. I have near 100% win rate with this strategy. It can get really boring, but if you want to grind MMR playing "team cheerleader" isn't a bad idea. Playing "the most OP FOTM support" isn't a bad idea either. Try that with Disruptor or something lol.
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On March 04 2015 05:50 Uranium wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 04:55 DinoMight wrote: Literally the only way I ever win ranked games:
2) First pick VS
Basically I babysit my team for 45 minutes. I have near 100% win rate with this strategy. It can get really boring, but if you want to grind MMR playing "team cheerleader" isn't a bad idea. Playing "the most OP FOTM support" isn't a bad idea either. Try that with Disruptor or something lol.
I've done it with Aba too. It's not so much the character.. just making sure there are always wards and breaking up internal fighting between your team members is what makes the difference TBH. Some games I feel like I could just sit in fountain and do nothing and my team would still win, as long as there are wards and our team is cooperating.
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i dont see where you went 19-0 (i see a 10-0 which is sick impressive)
what i do see on page 4 is 1-8 1-13 1-15 2-10 0-11 next page 0-13 2-10 2-9 next page 2-14 3-10 4-15 6-10 next page 1-8 6-11 5-10
so it looks like you've been insanely tilty and are pulling it together a bit with a 60% winrate on the latest page (my math is bad its like 12-8)
even with a few silly games where they have a 20-0 jug or you make questionable builds on QOP (hint: go orchid bkb/scythe, not aghs sheevers...................................)
i have higher xp per min, last hits per min and denies per min than you (something like that) and at LEAST half of my ranked games are literally fucking around in a party (compared to playing a core solo) (see Trends tab on dotabuff)
(not being a dick, just its indicative that those things could be improved a bit which would lead to way faster carry potential swinging any game rapidly in your favour early on)
im gonna watch your lina game you just played now just to be an asshole coz lina is my babe and i can rip you to shreds :D
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ok im not trying to be harsh coz i dont play support or carry only mid so i really have no idea but...
pre 3:00 you rightclick opponent hero like 2 times it felt like
3:00 you afk out of xp range for an entire wave (your laning partner is dead)
5:00 cs you: 1-3 your carry: 11-3 opponent sb: 24-7 opponent techies: 1-2
5:40 death ok that was hilarious :D you should sort of know not to do shit like walk into trees "to scout" and get trapped out of position for no reason. (sb is as good a reason as any to not do adventurous shit)
you now have no boots and 100 gold. you could have bought a tp before you died and not lost 100 gold. your quickbuy item is set to tp scroll as default, just give it a hotkey (t) then press t before you die or whatever
6:20 you cancel an autoattack on the techies you're about to kill, it looks like (he then denies himself). you also miss your first q which could have hit the sb + techies but only hit the techies (not saying this is viable though) (i know lina is hard to get the attack timing right when you dont have attack speed buff active)
you then possibly miss a kill on the sb because you cancel an attack animation and then walk several units sideways (SIDEWAYS?) before trying to chase him down. if you had boots or didnt cancel attacks or stuttered forwards (or maybe hit that first q) then it is possible it would have been a kill as he is left on 117 hp
9:10 you randomly q nuke 3 full creeps and a full hp sb for no reason and get 2-3 attacks on him whilst walking in circles, not even trying to cs the creeps or stun the sb. you just spent like a full minute walking back to base and tping back to get full mana so idk why this is a good idea now. the way to play lina is to wait until the melee hero goes to last hit a creep, then you stun him coz you know where he's gonna be, then you nuke and right click him whilst chasing/staggerstepping as he tries to run.
again you randomly q nuke him under his tower. your zeus coincidently uses his ulti at that moment. if you had got off a stun rather than the random q and some autoattacks then that could have been a random kill lol.
10:00 again you stun the cm who portals in then you walk away for like 3 seconds before coming back to rightclick her....your pa kills her by diving the tower but she should have been dead 3 seconds faster.................if you just fuckin rightclick instead of walking in circles
12:10 you're staring down an idle sb with your combo up, i probably would have just gone for it and shouted "zeus ulti". now i look at your skill build are 3-2-0-1 .... you need to have 1 point in your e..... its fucking +40 attack speed on a level 2 (or 3) hero , theres no fucking way you can skip it. it increases your harrasment, kill and cs rate by 20 fold
14:00 you throw out a random nuke on the sb and accidently tank the tower because of it, this is just lazy and it shouldnt really happen to you if you're trying to be 3k+ imo
16:30 ez slark kill -> 3 of you die for no reason you're a bit slow to use your stun but it could be for a number of reasons . however on reflection i say you should have used it earlier. he goes behind those trees and i probably would have used it. OR i would have baited his leap earlier by getting closer to him. OR i would have used it as he went down the first set of lowground steps. OR you could have tried to ulti him instead of trying to use the stun at the end there. you used the stun before he used his ulti when he was on like 200hp and was about to ulti. you ALSO threw out a random "does fuck all" autoattack which done nothing but slow down your decision making, pathing and consequently your ability to use your skills. so many things here contributed to the slark "getting away" and leading the 3 of you into mines and you saying "gg" (lol)
17:00 im not gonna watch anymore, i think you're tired/fed up and are consequently playing the "dont really want to do anything" support role which i always take but still get 2nd highest cs/farm on my team nowadays coz i make sure i dont have 17 cs 17 minutes into a game
you need to make your actions far more decisive and snappy. you should never see a good player do this "throw out a nuke then walk around a bit then throw out a few autoattacks" shit. every combination of actions should be decisive and meaningful. lina is a fucking amazing hero to learn this on. level up your e and harrass the opponent heroes out of the lane whilst getting every deny and at least enough last hits to get your fucking boots by the 10 minute mark. lina is literally the best laner in the game (stuns for heroes, nukes for creeps, +40 attack speed and the longest range in the game) and you should CRUSH your opponents within the first 5 minutes of any game in order to give you a snowballing item advantage that they can't recover from
PRO TIP: i didnt see you do fuck all csing or denying this game but the biggest tip i saw recently was to align my hero to the creep before trying to cs it. do this by rightclicking the creep then hitting stop/hold pos. this removes your turn rate delay when you go to get the last hit/deny. it does "broadcast" what you're about to do , but believe me this doesn't matter for shit compared to the increased chance of landing that last hit. people will be walking backwards and forwards like fucking monkeys while you're standing there hitting every single cs one after the other
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I'm gonna say that you have absolutely no tower damage in that ursa game. Ursa is pretty good at taking down towers and taking down towers is pretty much what the game is about, not getting kills or high gpm/xpm. Picking heroes that do a lot of damage to towers generally wins games I feel. If you are the carry, you are not only supposed to get kills and farm. Towers are the most important thing. Win one teamfight, win the game.
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im watching ursa game now
25 mins in
you are 6-0 but it is not due to "skill", it is because you farmed a shadowblade+mom on ursa by afk jungling/roshing (you threw the first aegis away by diving past their tier 1 into 3 heroes with 0 kill potential and barely escaped fyi)
your team just got 0-3ed because they came to help you after you fucked up a gank by forgetting your visibility but after being spotted (and not doing anything) you kept going into 4-5 heroes without vision. the opponent clock hooked your sb and the cogs forced you out of being trapped and into safety, where you kept running. your 3 friends who showed up tried to run a few seconds later but got chased down by the jug aghs ulti + hasted OD + oracle stun. basically you don't want to take zero vision engagements like this after being spotted and fucking up , you shouldnt have been in that spot in the first place and were lucky to get saved by the opponent clock.
you are 4th in cs (believe it or not) though you did have a rough start and fucked ping right at the start. you are top in networth
next you try to gank opponent oracle without dust
next you go on opponent sniper but forget to use your q (the slow) whilst recklessly diving the tier 2 with no backup and after being scouted for a good 20 seconds . you miss the kill and die running away
(there goes your 6-0 streak to the sniper btw)
because of this recklessness the opponent team cuts off another one of your players and then takes your top tier 2 for free
they stay too long and your team gets 2 free counter kills bringing you to 8-2
27:40 you solo gank the opposing jug while he has his healing ward just created and was 4 mana away from having his aghs ulti which would have been up (and was up). so that was basically a suicide move. you give up , use your slow completely missing him and whilst his spin is up anyway??? then get hooked and die
28:00 you are now 8-2 kill/death, by the time you respawn you are 500 gold behind your troll (4-3 k/s) and equal gold to opponent jug (5-5 k/d)
you go straight to rosh and as you finish killing it you coincidently walk out into opponent OD and oracle who just used his invis coz he got spotted by opponent . the OD force staffs himself away from you but doesnt bother to use his w on you so just dies randomly to you. the oracle's invis runs out as he runs past you and another free random kill. this is not "skill" on your behalf they are just shit
INFACT YOU FORGOT TO USE YOUR PHASE BOOTS AND MOM HERE AND THEN GOT HOOKED BY THE CLOCK, TRIED TO CHASE HIM AND COMPLETELY WIFFED YOUR Q AGAIN FOR NO REASON
30:00 you spend the next 2 minutes on literally 20 mana out of 660 which is not something i would personally ever do.
32:00 you are now 11-2 after getting a kill set up by your wr and sb (and still on 20 mana out of 660)
2 of the opponent heroes are dead and 4 of you are standing next to their tier 2. you go to take some jungle creep then walk straight back into opponent mid lane next to their tier 2 , straight into opponent heroes . you immediately die to jug ulti and lose the aegis
you can see your 3 friendly heroes converging again towards you but dont check their mana/etc to see what they intend to do. instead you just go invis and start running when you aegis respawn , while your 3 friends engage with you running past them. you realise and turn back to fight and are now 12-2. again, this is not skill
opponent jug buysback and 2 of your are evaporated by hook + OD ulti combo.
34 min opponent jug randomly ganks your tier 2 mid and your team gangbangs him in return making you 13-2
this happens AGAIN, EXACTLY THE SAME THING: + Show Spoiler +
4 of you head towards the tier 2 but you fuck off into the jungle and 3 of you standing around wondering what their carry is doing now
LOL the opponent jug literally chats right now "just finish it will you?" . you finally go back and take the tier 2 mid
36:00 you fuck off and afk into the jungle for no reason while opponent is a bit fucked up and literally just told you to "just end".
meanwhile your troll and crew get an invis rune and gank opponent mid where they see only the OD. this is obviously a bad idea because opponent has 4 other heroes who show up and kill your troll and wr.
this is exactly where your lack of leadership presumably took part. i cant see ingame chat or audio or even pings apparently but a few things would have helped here if i was playing:
1) you warn your team they have 4 heroes lurking in that area and its too dangerous to gank there 2) you go to help them making sure you have sufficient mana and your fresh bkb which you have 3) you lead them to push bot or even top instead of afking in the jungle for no fucking reason
you lose 2 full hp towers because of this.... it could have gone differently if you were leading your team rather than afk jungling for no reason.....
40:30 pretty fucking annoying here, your sb feeds just as you're taking rosh. ok i replayed this with your perspective and fog. you clearly made some minor mistake here that led to you feeding.
1) you didn't ONCE scroll over to see what was going on between the opponent heroes . you just stared at rosh like a moron. how can you make any decision playing like this?
2) just as you kill rosh you can see the opponent heroes heading AWAY from rosh pit . you can see on minimap this is happenening even if you arent scrolled to watch them directly. if you WERE bothing to watch them directly you would have seen this and maybe seen why (are they low? are they all doing the same thing?? HAVE THEY USED ANY SKILLS EG JUG ULTI??????)
3) both the oracle and the OD had dust by the 26 minute mark (the OD currently has a gem). i dont know if you would have spotted that they had dust but if you had then you would know waiting for your shadow blade would be futile.
combining these things (watching opponent heroes and knowing about dust) it is an EASY decision to leave the rosh pit as quickly as possible rather than waiting for the shadowblade. the opponent heroes were WALKING AWAY from the rosh pit and you could see this clearly a) from minimap icons, which i would have used b) from scrolling to watch them.
so even though the sb is a fucking idiot there you were still 100% responsible for what happened to you. if it was me i and i watched my replay i would have thought "fuck i should have noticed they werent heading over here and i should have just ran for it with the aegis, and fuck they had dust and a gem and i knew about the dust from earlier so what good is waiting for my shadowblade"
4) incidently denying your own phase boots and cheese just added insult to injury, try to fly the courier over if you don't have a friendly person with you to pick up your shit.......
42:30
opponent jug is caught out and held between literally 8 seconds worth of stuns between your sb and shaman. you walk past him and go to attack the sniper who is a good target but the consequence of this was walking past the jug that your 2 friends were going on and doing nothing while he counter-killed them after the 8 seconds of stun had worn off and you were standing there like a moron looking at the sniper and doing nothing but watching your friends die while they tried to take down the fucking juggernaught
you take out the sniper with your troll who tped in and clean up the jug putting you at 14-3 with the game score at an even 35-34
43:51 you bought boots of travel which IMO is not a good item choice here, i'm no expert (complete nub) but always find spending 2000 gold on boots of travel when you're in a rough spot is one of the worst possible things you can do.
45:00 you are still jungling and not doing anything in particular , but opponent team has taken your map control and is 5man picking you off . then high ground push with cogs, sniper, jug ulti and OD control ....a tough spot . i probably would have sold that shadowblade and picked up a blink dagger , i mean whats the prognosis on a shadowblade at this point...?
TO SUMMARISE
if you played "well" you would likely have been 30-0 and had such decisive and skillful control of all stages of the game that this wouldn't have been close, it would have been a stomp.
you did not play well; you had a nice KDA but compared to a very highly skilled player you actually played poorly in many MANY moments of the game. this is inclusive of a) your basic mechanics b) your tactical decision-making in skirmishes c) your overall strategy, communication, leadership and control of the game
the skill of your teammates in this particular game would have had NOTHING to do with the outcome of the game had you yourself played in a highly skillful manner
if you are able to discern and recognise these many flaws in your gameplay then being angry with other players just fades instantly away because its always so easy to put a burden of blame and responsibility on yourself , knowing that had you played much better you would have won with ease
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Key things as a support that you can do to make or break a game;
- Talk a lot. Direct your team towards capitalising on objectives after kills. Speak and try to make everyone stay positive; "we have better lategame," "we totally outlaned them," "don't worry that you died, you bought space for XXX" et cetera. - Gank their courier. Remind your safelane that denying the bottle from their mid is +875 gold for your team - gold he can't farm up during you waiting for that courier. Also, your other lanes (especially mid) will benefit from this. - Pick a support that can compliment any carry on lane. Lion, VS, Skywrath, Shadow Priest, Rhasta - these are heroes that power up your lane no matter what you have. - Carry a TP. Save other lanes when they fuck up or get dove. - The first item should either be HP/Mana/Armor-heavy (bracer, null, Point Booster, medallion, urn) or a mobility item. This is key for positioning, and if you get a Force Staff you can bail your teammates. - Wards is key - but don't buy 98 sentries. If your team needs detection, pick up sentries for push/siege/de-ward and ask cores to carry dust. You can't do everything by yourself. - If you want to ward deep, get a smoke and someone to accompany you. It can mean a kill and a push if you utilise the potential of the smoke. - Rotate for the mid laners runes to secure them, if they don't want them then take them and either make shit happen or farm up. Bounty? Sweet, extra gold. Invis? Sweet, gank mid for extra gold. DD? You just won your lane (depending on hero and timing). - Watch the minimap - it saves lives.
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Dam! FFGenerations giving a health dose of reality. P.S. I would love you to do this for one of my replays
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Post a match or your dotabuff, I'll look at it tomorrow if no one else has by then.
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Im just so frustrated.... I buy wards, deward, gank mid 3 times, get levels, rotate into lanes with tps that need help - aka turn around and get kills for them. I say all this to say, I then lose the game - Void first item buys MKB then purposely chronos team and runs away and lets us die. Razor (who i ganked three times for) gets killed by a rotating lion once and somehow does not have the items the troll has at the mid game. He got killed by a rotation after I gave perfect vision of the lion, pinged 5 times, and told him lion was coming mid and I would not be able to get there in time.
Long story short, its impossible to support in ELO hell. You have to pick the FOTM or some strong independent core like Slark and win games on your back.
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u can be a rly good support and get something around 6.3k if u rly are good enough...
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On March 06 2015 09:18 xXxUnseenxXx wrote: Im just so frustrated.... I buy wards, deward, gank mid 3 times, get levels, rotate into lanes with tps that need help - aka turn around and get kills for them. I say all this to say, I then lose the game - Void first item buys MKB then purposely chronos team and runs away and lets us die. Razor (who i ganked three times for) gets killed by a rotating lion once and somehow does not have the items the troll has at the mid game. He got killed by a rotation after I gave perfect vision of the lion, pinged 5 times, and told him lion was coming mid and I would not be able to get there in time.
Long story short, its impossible to support in ELO hell. You have to pick the FOTM or some strong independent core like Slark and win games on your back. FFGenerations did a pretty indepth analysis of your play and you don't even acknowledge it... sounds to me like you just want to vent more than you're actually looking to improve, and there's a thread for that here http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/454149-dota-2-qq-thread?page=last
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nah he showed appreciation in pm and we will coach together sometime if i get round to it
as a 3k support you can probably achieve 60%+ playing the same hero a lot and a really good player (ie not you) could probably achieve 70%. these aren't bad winrates so really there is nothing to complain about apart from problems with your own gameplay
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oh my bad
i think support is more of a crapshoot the lower down you go in MMR because of higher core decisionmaking variability; it seems to me that the ability to lead the team without pissing them off around objectives and favorable fights is just as important, if not more important, than doing all the mechanical stuff properly
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On March 05 2015 05:38 Sassback wrote: Dam! FFGenerations giving a health dose of reality. P.S. I would love you to do this for one of my replays So I picked this match: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1294676749, since the game is fairly even for the first 40 minutes, which gives us a large timeframe where improvements would have mattered.
Preface: Every single radiant player could've won the match for his team by playing better individually, but even though your teammates mistakes matter for the outcome, I'll be ignoring them since they're irrelevant to our individual improvement. For the most part I'll be ignoring your execution in fights, unless I have something interesting to say. I'll also soften the blow by saying that your QoP is quite decent overall, your skill and item builds were solid, and you farmed at a reasonable pace.
0-20 minutes + Show Spoiler + 0:00 If you don't try to block the wave, you should be the one taking the bounty rune. The gold and xp has a bigger impact for the 1v1 matchup mid, than for the safelaner (especially this game because there was a defensive trilane, so bounty doesn't do much for the slark)
0:11 You let the wave pass by you without blocking, this makes it so the equilibrium favors storm heavily when the waves clash, and by the second wave the lane is pushed into your tower, making it difficult for you to lasthit.
3:40 You should scream + autoattack the wave so that it's dead by 3:50 and you can go for rune. This forces your opponent to choose between a) giving up on rune or b) giving up on an entire wave. Not doing so also makes you lose out on atleast 2 lasthits here, since you have to leave the wave before it's dead + storm has an easier time farming since the wave doesn't go into his tower.
3:46 At this point you have enough gold to buy boots + a tp (I like to carry a tp at all times as soon as I have the most basic needed necessities, like boots and bottle), anytime you have enough money for a significant item you should buy it as soon as you can. You buy your boots at 8:15(!), more than 4 minutes later than you could have gotten them.
5:00 You skill scream at 6, while it is arguably okay in some cases, you definitely want to get ult most of the time. 1 more level in scream adds 60 magic dmg, 1 level in ulti gives you 290 pure dmg. A lot of times (certainly in this game),you can just harass a little with dagger + right click, bottle up so you have mana for blink scream ulti, and you can easily get a solo kill on your mid opponent.
5:30 You missed 3 lasthits on an single uncontested wave when you have 74 right click dmg, this shouldn't happen.
5:45 Once again, you should start thinking about the upcoming rune and autoattack + scream the wave. Not doing this lost you 2 creeps, and would've lost you the entire wave if storm would have denied creeps from 50% hp.
6:30 Once again you skill scream over ulti, I disagree, but I guess it's a matter of opinion.
6:45 You have 1500gold, that's full treads or atleast boots+wand+tp's/smoke/detection, alarm bells should be going off, the difference between having no boots at all and having treads on QoP is huge (expecially with a bottle). My inner starcraft player is like: "Don't forget to macro!".
7:00 If you're far away from you laning opponent and not lasthitting while bottling, you might aswell drop stat items for max efficiency, and when it's only 1 (null talis) it's not too much effort.
7:20 No reason to scream the wave here, if you hadn't screamed here the wave wouldn't end up under storms tower + you would have had more mana, making your upcoming kill attempt much more likely to succeed.
7:34 You would've died here even if the dazzle hadn't come, towerdiving a storm is very dangerous, you have to be able to instakill him for it to work. Note that you had 1950 gold when you died, if you had bought int treads and a stick you might have killed him and lived.
8:15 You stand in base for 15 seconds. Since you spawn with full health after dying, your aim should be to grab items and tp/start running instantly. You also have 700+ gold left and an open inventory slot, you should buy a component for your next item, dust/sentries for weaver or even smoke to for bypassing wards for a gank on weaver (who almost dies to you scream and ulti alone at this point).
8:34 Right as you land dazzle and storm are going on pudge, this is a perfect opportunity to blink and land a double scream + ult, doing so would be a sure kill on dazzle, and since both you and pudge are full health there's little risk involved. However, if you didn't go here due to suspecting LC might be with them, then that's a valid reason not to commit, since shes missing and you don't know what items she has.
9:20 You're standing on the other side of the river and get jumped by LC with blink, anytime you're playing vs. a jungle who get's blink (axe, bat, lc) you need to be cautious of this around 9+ minutes. It can be a hard thing to keep in mind, but it's worth mentioning.
10:05 When going back to heal you want to waste as little time as possible, use your blink every time it's ready.
10:15 You buy a quarterstaff, which tells me you're gonna forego treads. I disagree with this since treads are great on QoP, since she actually right clicks a decent amount + tread switching is strong on her with bottle. But since you're playing vs. weaver and storm rushing Orchid is not unreasonable, once again, matter of opinion.
10:30 I'm confident you can tell what your mistakes are this fight yourself, the most significant one being that you should've blinked away from storm instead of trading (rather safe than sorry), and in such tight trades be sure to bottle in between hits.
12:45 If possible, don't use invis rune close to common ward spots.
13:45 You're running around, you should have your mind set on the 14 min rune, nuke down the next wave so you can take the rune as it spawns.
15:15 Some dead time in base. Try to decide on where you're gonna go while you're still dead to be efficient with your time. You forgot to buy another tp.
15:47 Don't go uphill by yourself with 4 enemies missing while having little vision of the map. Either make your team come with you (ideally with a smoke) or just go farm. Your teammates made a mistake by trying to help you, but try to tell them they should back/not help you when you realize how bad the situation is.
17:10 At this stage of the game, you should spam scream on creep waves to farm faster.
17:44 All 5 enemies are missing, and you're just the two of you quite far up. This is where you blink away and use the Get Back chat wheel command a couple of times.
18:48 Sell your null talisman or keep the second oblivion on courier to make room for a tp.
19:30 The map is dark and all 5 are missing. Slark should've known this, but if you notice people off by themselves in these situations don't be afraid to >Get Back! a couple of times.
19:58 Always kill the small creeps first, allowing the Summoner to summon skeletons for extra gold.
20:00 Going into the lane with LC and Storm missing is greedy. Just aquire a tp and farm your own side of the map when it's safer.
20+ + Show Spoiler + 21:27 Always check inventories of heroes that are prone to build linkens, you missed out on a storm kill here by going for weaver.
22:24 Instead of running to the right and then down, simply go to the edge and blink straight into the river, always think about how to move around in an efficient and safe manner.
22:46 When blinking to camps that can spawn golems, dont scream untill you see the camp type.
23:26 Here you can see two opponents going for slark bot on the minimap, in situations like these try to tp into the trees by the tower so they don't see you. This would allow you to get a really good jump on them as they go for slark.
29:20 Keep your blink on cooldown when moving around the map.
31:00 (This is unrelated to the fight that happens, but is about the general mindset you should have from this point onwards) You now have your core items, aswell as level 3 ulti, considering the superior lategame of the enemy team, farming is going to be less effective for you. So to take advantage of the point in the game where you have the biggest impact, try to organize smokes to gank or take rosh, and follow that up by taking what objectives you can.
32:30 The most efficient way of farming waves is to make sure your scream hit's all five creeps, one way to do this without missing CS is to hit the creeps that arent taking damage from your wave untill they're in scream kill range, and then cleaning up the entire wave in a single scream. The goal is to spend as little time as possible on each wave.
33:24 You're strong enough now that you should just facetank creeps to kill them faster. Kiting isn't needed anymore.
35:05 Try to Orchid storm asap whenever he jumps you. Wouldn't have made a difference if he bkb's quickly, but it's worth noting still.
37:57 A teamfight starts bot close to your base, it takes you 10 seconds to start tping. You should keep a close eye on the minimap in these situations, so that you can join fight asap when needed. You can even just attackmove to farm, and put your camera on the pre-fight staredown so you can tp the second shit goes down. Joining at the right time is worth missing a few lasthits.
41:30 In this fight you blink away from favorable situations where your team is outnumbering the enemy, twice. Especially the first one is costly since it's an easy pickoff on the lc. After that your teammates ulties and slarks bkb have been spent, at which point you should have tried disengaging, but a 5v5 breaks out which ends badly.
44:44 Here you should've saved ulti by not using it on LC, then tried to dagger weaver to pop linkens, then orchid + ult him. Alternatively, use ulti on LC at the start, so you can get it over with faster and leave.
47:10 In lategame scenarios where your team is behind, a good way of coming back is by smoking as 5. If you buy the smoke, tell them in chat and do a bunch of pinging people tend to listen. By forcing your team to group up, your players won't be getting picked off which can easily lose you the game. This is especially true vs. lineups that are good at getting pickoffs.
48:34 This would be a great time to try such a smoke gank. To be safe just do it from inside your base, where dire probably don't have vision.
From this point onwards the only way you win without smoke is by outplaying dire in teamfights, which is hard considering your deficit.
Hope you can use this to make some improvements to your play.
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Thank you! I appreciate it. I think my biggest weakness is definitely in teamfights. Especially the part when i get spooked and blink away from favorable fights, and also using my spells on sub par targets. My mechanics are awful, and I think it's something I'll always be trying to improve.
I usually forgo treads if i rush orchid, usually because 1.Orchid is only super effective before the cores get there own items, so the earlier i get it, the sooner i can solo carries 2. As you saw, I am not the most efficient farmer and skipping treads usually gets my orchid out 2-5min faster 3. I like BoT's, especially because QoP is a great split pusher and it really increases my cs, and being able to tp to creep waves and keep the lanes pushed is a pretty big positive. Also, being able to tp into fights that aren't next to a tower is a huge boon, especially in my lower skill bracket where teamfights can happen without warning, and with very little communication.
And, on a final note, I will really try to utilize late game smokes. It's something that doesn't even enter my consciousness when I'm not playing supports and it's past 20 min.
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22:46 When blinking to camps that can spawn golems, dont scream untill you see the camp type.
ahaha fuck this XD
1) fight tactics are not that hard to learn since it is really just a mindset of heightened awareness and understanding of player movements and the consequences of these . then practicing your mechanics to be able to perform your own movements.
if you watch a few of your replays you will be able to see how your own tactical decisions differ from what you would have done with perfect awareness (both with and without fog of war)
i watched like 10 of my replays and every time i was like "Holy shit, i thought i was playing so well, but if i had more heightened sense i would have known that i could have moved here or that i shouldn't have moved there"
now when i play i feel like i am more able to determine where an opponent is going to be, for instance. i actively look for simple clues like "he is moving this way so in a few seconds time i know he will almost certainly be there so i know i should do this and that when i do it he will probably be surprised".
this is just from watching some replays and seeing how MY lines of thought differ from the reality of the situations
it sounds like your weakness also lies in farming. to fix this you can watch 1 game of the hero you're playing streamed by a 5k+ player. you will see farming techniques like for qop killing a creepwave you attack 2nd creep until 1st creep is half hp from dying to creeps then scream then attack range creep then finish off the 4th creep (something like this).
treads are fucking incredible on qop imo. i would get them in almost all circumstance. your rightclick for harrassment and for lasthitting/clearing goes through the roof with them. treadswitching for emergency mana or hp is invaluable. i used to think treads were a bit lacklustre but when i started paying more attention i realised how damn powerful they are (increase your base damage by like 15%? and attack speed by god-knows-what-% just a few minutes into the game).
lv 6 (i think) qop with treads = 1.01 attacks per second without treads = 1.25 attacks per second with treads = 73.5 dmg without treads = 65.5 dmg with treads switching = 454+161+152 = 767hp without thread switching = 615hp
= treads hero has 19.2% increase in speed = treads hero has 10.9% increase in dmg = tread switching hero has 19.8% increase in hp
im shit at math and dont know if this proves anything lol
but if u said to me "my lv 6 hero qop is basically 20% faster than yours and does 10% more damage per attack and can switch to a +20% gain in hp at any time and also has basically extra mana enough to blink 2 more times" i would be jelly
bots are one of the worst items i can think of. 2000 gold to give the most mobile hero in dota some more mobility? you literally have a 13000 range blink every 4 seconds.
your focus on qop should be to outcarry all other players in the game. when i play qop i go treads, orchid, bkb, satanic -> game is over because i outfarmed everyone else by a mile. i never think "oh a pair of bots will help me around now a hell of a lot more than , say, starting my bkb/scythe/satanic".
come endgame the question i ask myself is "do i want buyback more than i need bots" and the answer is usually clear either way
i always have fuckall luck with early/midgame smokes (you smoke up and people walk immediately in opposite directions or go attack the nearest creep) but they can be brilliant for "breaking highground" (or taking tier 2s), just back off and smoke and catch someone out then you won the game
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Can I have that kind of analysis on one of my games Alurr? :O
This is my dotabuff. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/109715576
I was hoping you could look at this game in particular though. It's probably easy to explain why we lost (got outcarried - medusa lol) but I obviously didn't play optimally, especially since I'm still learning storm and was wondering if I could have some expert analysis. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1295372771
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From my experience, and we're not very far away in terms of mmr (like i'm probably a good streal in rankedmatchmaking ahead of you) effective supporting is extremely strong at this level. Just pick Venge/Lion/Ogre/Shadow Shaman/Mirana (anyone with a stunning nuke really), ask if anyone wants to come own shit up with you by picking another one of the above mentioned, gank every lane if yes and just cover up for you 4-core team/play "cheerleader" if not. Venge, Mirana and Ogre are really good for this because they need 0 items/not too much xp to be effective so even if you're solo support you can have huge impact.
I mostly play mid but when I can't I use this strat. 80% winrate with Venge, not that it says too much to be honest, hero's strong at the moment.
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Im just so frustrated.... I buy wards, deward, gank mid 3 times, get levels, rotate into lanes with tps that need help - aka turn around and get kills for them. I say all this to say, I then lose the game - Void first item buys MKB then purposely chronos team and runs away and lets us die. Razor (who i ganked three times for) gets killed by a rotating lion once and somehow does not have the items the troll has at the mid game. He got killed by a rotation after I gave perfect vision of the lion, pinged 5 times, and told him lion was coming mid and I would not be able to get there in time.
Saying you do all this shit and still lose is the worst trap you could put yourself in. It's probably the cause of so many people believing in ELO hell. If you want to get out of the shit your in, you don't say what you did, because ultimately it was shit/wasn't good enough to get out of whatever bracket your in. You look at what instead you could do for improvement in future games. Worrying about a shit teammate is pointless because chances are in low mmr you'll never see them again. If you also feel like you consistently get bad teammates, its also a possiblity that you should consider; that you're the one playing bad and you need to fix an aspect of your play.
However this is all baseless assumption from the posts I've read, so don't take it personally, well you probably should, but just use it constructively - you can cry after a game about how you had the worst teammates ever as long as you identify what you could of atleast done better.
For instance I've had games where I dominate the offlane and my mid feeds super hard. I am obviously annoyed, but after thinking about it realised it would of been much more beneficial to give my mid the safe lane and to go with a support to mid and take over midlane instead. Shit like this.
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On March 06 2015 09:18 xXxUnseenxXx wrote: Im just so frustrated.... I buy wards, deward, gank mid 3 times, get levels, rotate into lanes with tps that need help - aka turn around and get kills for them. I say all this to say, I then lose the game - Void first item buys MKB then purposely chronos team and runs away and lets us die. Razor (who i ganked three times for) gets killed by a rotating lion once and somehow does not have the items the troll has at the mid game. He got killed by a rotation after I gave perfect vision of the lion, pinged 5 times, and told him lion was coming mid and I would not be able to get there in time.
Long story short, its impossible to support in ELO hell. You have to pick the FOTM or some strong independent core like Slark and win games on your back. You're confusing the things you said above with something a good support player would do, when in reality those are things that any 3k support has mastered. Supporting is much more than just knowing where to put wards and ganking; so if the things you listed are examples of your exemplary support play, then your mmr is exactly where it should be.
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