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First off disclaimer that this is an angry rant and I mean no disrespect to the LiquidDotA staff when writing this. Forgive the errors as well because this is a blog. --
The purpose of segregating DotA away from TL.net is because you want a site strictly dedicated to Starcraft. That's fine but why are there still other sections such as Smash? The biggest culprit here is the LoL subsection with it's own strategy and tournaments. Why do these sub sections on the website exist for these games and not for DotA or Hearthstone?
Seriously not only does TL.net still offer consistent and quality content over LiquidDotA but so does LiquidHearth and the LoL subforum. What the fuck is going on here? LiquidHearth offers a lot of intensive guides from high profile players like Trump, Amaz and more. TeamLiquid is still offering quality previews and write ups and pro SC2 players still frequent the website and it's community. Do you even get the slightest impression that pros come here and read or interact with the community or site directly on the same level of the other sites? no.
looking at the content in other Liquid sites and coming back here pisses me off. I know I won't win this argument and that Nazghul's stance on the matter will not change but I implore you guys to see the other Liquid sites in terms of content and come back here and tell me your thoughts.
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Well part of that is that Liquid came into a scene that was already really developed and had many other sites. Also TL content is usually made by volunteers so to have better content you have to have people willing to make such content. I agree in terms of content Liquid Dota is massively lacking but that is where we as users need to step up and start making content and covering Tournaments. That being said as much as I would like to help in that way I can't, I just don't have enough time and am in no way a writer. But I am a web developer and so I am working on some ways to help the site in that realm so I guess what I am trying to say is jump in and make this place better!
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YourGoodFriend pretty much got it right.
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i'm pretty sure i can quote nazghul offhandedly that he said something along the lines that the introduction of other games made navigating TL.net an unfriendly experience for newcomers and was one of the key reasons why DotA split from tl.net which made me angry and pissed because those other subsections exist.
this is an angry rant but there's still some rationale behind some of the points i bring up regardless.
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it's Nazgul, not Nazghul
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On November 20 2014 04:45 teddyoojo wrote: BRING BACK GD
never forget
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On November 20 2014 05:10 Kuroeeah wrote: Naz-Gul or Naz-Ghoul? First one.
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Initially I was annoyed by your post since I like liquiddota.com a lot. But I do see your point. There really haven't been a lot of separate Dota 2 articles/content....every big tournament gets a write-up but there aren't a lot of separate strategy articles.
A lot of it is the nature of the game though. Basic learning articles would be redundant as that stuff is already out there. Plus, the pro experience vs. the pub experience are a lot further apart in Dota 2 vs. Starcraft 2. It's not like you can see a C9 strat and go and reproduce it in your pub games right away.
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Why isn't your icon a meepo if you feel this way?
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I like this site.
I always open all three sites anyway, and I like having the separate calendars and live streams for each.
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i just wanna note that im watching vp polar vs 4asc and im really sad theres no gd where i can comment on the cs difference between bfury am and bfury pa
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Awhile ago I was going to write a detailed blog about why the site sucks and offer a lot of suggestions point by point to help build the site and community. I had all my thoughts drafted in Word and began to expand on why dota content (especially in forums) is challenging and offered varied solutions to all the issues and shortcomings ordered by time and monetary investment required (since I don't know how many resources ld.com has in this regard), when I was struck with the thought of, why bother?
I could have taken hours and hours and finished the blog but I had absolutely zero confidence it wouldn't just fall on deaf ears and be swept away. Why would I put any effort into creating content for a website that didn't even give the appearance that they were making an effort in creating content or community building?
I'm really bummed how LiquidDota turned out as a Liquid fan boy (you should see the 'game room' in my house ~_~) but I've become far too cynical and jaded to care. This is my first post in a dota related thread on this site in 2 weeks, and before that it was another 2 weeks, in this thread http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/467938-sep-26-community-hero-challenge, which the community is still wondering about who won lols.
Admittedly all of my posts near the end of my 'caring' were shit posts, just to see how far I could go. Which clearly isn't a good strategy to use for something you 'care' about but it was damn near impossible to put forth any effort when you saw just about nothing from everyone 'in charge'.
I shall go back into my hole now, bye bye.
edit: To have bit of positivity in post, the calendar owns and is the only reason I ever comeback. :D
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On November 20 2014 04:45 teddyoojo wrote: BRING BACK GD Yes, please
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the problem is even if you bring back gd it would never be as it used to be, the magic has left us there is no coming back.
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I mean, they could honestly just delete the entire forum section, just have the entire screen taken up by the calender, and it wouldn't affect 90% of us users.
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On November 20 2014 06:10 Akfekeht wrote: this site was dead to me when they killed GD,was the only entertaining thread to post in but the fun police kicked the door in again.The community here doesn't even exist really anymore apart from some IRC and teamspeak groups and thats about it.
The only reason why I come here at all is out of habit(which pisses me off) and to check out streams and schedules.
and yes i started using adblock
This. GD was a lot of fun to follow since there really isn't anything else happening here. Without GD it seems completely dead. I use LD to check the General/Other Games/Sports forums more than I use it to follow Dota.
I may not have ever posted in it and it sure as shit wasn't always about Dota, but at least GD fostered some sort of community on this dead website.
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Whole point of the LiquidDota separation was because everyone thought that Liquid was just a SC2 fan site, or a place for TeamLiquid fanboys. Apparently they thought a domain change would give it broader appeal.
And basically after a full year the Active Users looks about the same. So clearly Fission Mailed.
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There's a lot less active posters now / after the divide.
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the sad thing is this blog is more active than the whole of LD has been in a week
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Literally the only value addition of the site split from a dota perspective is the dedicated calendar. Which I like very much.
Everything else is preeeetty much downhill
In distinct contrast to the (imo) huge success that is LH which not only adds a lot of value as a site to the hearthstone section but also gets that shit out of my hair cuz god that game is awful lol. They also have a semi-useable site icon also in contrast to LD
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So honestly I'm glad that several specific users replied to this blog because first off, I recognize everyone and more importantly while Im not speaking for everyone, I get the impression that NONE of us actually likes the divide or changes even though we've been a part of TL DotA's community since the beginning.
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I do understand the concept behind a lot of the changes made I just don't think that the concept is realistic or valuable in the dota community.
Which I believe is feedback I made in the GD closing thread among other places but I could be wrong.
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Not going to lie,
I don't post very good content anymore because a lot of the users suck. Not a great argument from my perspective, but some of the most vocal members around here annoy me the most.
After that, I just kept posting closer and closer to the limit of what would normally get someone banned to see what would happen.
Nothing ofc
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On November 20 2014 07:09 Akfekeht wrote: The reason why this new site doesn't work is partly because of us. Liquid is user generated content,for better or for worse.We're just not that interested in putting in the effort to write quality content or what ever,most of us are here for the bullshit,which was GD.
I don't have anything against nazgul but I think he hoped that liquid dota would pick up more steam and gather fnatics like stacraft has in the earlier days since there is no central community hub. But it looks like no one sees the appeal in being a hamster running the wheel for nazgul.People are shocked when someone comes up with "uh but why don't i get payed as a TL writer",and I don't necessarily think you should get money,but you should at least get something out of it,like recognition from the community or w/e. Its not that it cant be done but right now it feels like there is no community so contributing to this website in a meaningful way seems like a very daunting task.
idk,i personally think you should bring back the bullshit that was GD,we were good at that at least. i think bullshit is a very good soil to grow things on,eventually someone retarded enough is going to go on and write a "God of War" type of post.It's just not going to happen over night and shutting down stuff like GD is a very bad idea and hinders the growth of this site actually. Just remember the type of bullshit that was posted back in the old BW TL days,some of those posts would get permabaned nowadays,but there were a few people that eventually got interested and invested in the site enough to generate content for it.
I totally agree that a solution to the website lacking content is for people to actually make content. That's on us. But in the event that no one is coming forth with content, why shut down the only thread that people seemed to be excited about? Closing GD made little sense when it was the only active thread on the website, even if people weren't staying on topic.
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Traffic hasn't changed with the closing of the GD thread (it actually went up for a bit), so bringing that back makes no sense but to just please a small subset of people who posted there. Not sure if you guys realize but some thread being constantly bumped by like 50 people isn't even making up 1% of our daily traffic...
I agree with a lot of the other stuff being said here though.
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Basing an argument on site traffic doesn't really do it for me.
I'm sure kotaku gets a ton of traffic but that site is beyond shitty.
I do understand that growth is important and that one of the reasons the site got split off was exactly to give Liquid`Dota space to grow. But growth for the sake of growth isn't a winning recipe.
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On November 20 2014 07:29 Sn0_Man wrote: Basing an argument on site traffic doesn't really do it for me.
I'm sure kotaku gets a ton of traffic but that site is beyond shitty. I'm not basing an argument on that at all. It wasn't even an argument really...
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On November 20 2014 07:33 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 07:29 Sn0_Man wrote: Basing an argument on site traffic doesn't really do it for me.
I'm sure kotaku gets a ton of traffic but that site is beyond shitty. I'm not basing an argument on that at all. It wasn't even an argument really... Well it was. Ur argument was "GD wasn't an important part of LD since it's removal didn't negatively affect site traffic"
I understand the reasons MiR had against GD and I can at least sympathize even though I miss the fuck outta the thread. But talking about "traffic" is at best of tangential importance to users who care more about discussions and interactions than traffic. (this is on the assumption that traffic means page hits)
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On November 20 2014 07:30 Akfekeht wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 07:26 TheEmulator wrote: Traffic hasn't changed with the closing of the GD thread (it actually went up for a bit), so bringing that back makes no sense but to just please a small subset of people who posted there. Not sure if you guys realize but some thread being constantly bumped by like 50 people isn't even making up 1% of our daily traffic...
I agree with a lot of the other stuff being said here, but the whole GD thing is annoying to be honest. its not stupid and annoying and it clearly shows you don't understand the problem. threads like GD don't create traffic,they create fanatics and people who are a bit deeper in and come to know people on a different level.Those type of people usually end up writing the original content that you need. Your not going to get a random guy from reddit here to write a article for you constantly,you need to breed those type of people,and stuff liek GD is usually where you do it. Theres no one bitching here about the lack of traffic for this site and if its down or up,were talking about who makes the content that doesn't exist right now.Guides and LR threads are ok but idk,theres nothing special about that. Threads like GD create an insular community with no opportunity for growth.
GD was around forever and only a couple of people who are regular posters ever became a part of our staff, and it was usually through us asking and not them seeking us out. Also some of best staff members aren't a part of this community. We found phantasmal creating content on reddit and many others so...
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On November 20 2014 07:35 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 07:33 TheEmulator wrote:On November 20 2014 07:29 Sn0_Man wrote: Basing an argument on site traffic doesn't really do it for me.
I'm sure kotaku gets a ton of traffic but that site is beyond shitty. I'm not basing an argument on that at all. It wasn't even an argument really... Well it was. Ur argument was "GD wasn't an important part of LD since it's removal didn't negatively affect site traffic" I understand the reasons MiR had against GD and I can at least sympathize even though I miss the fuck outta the thread. But talking about "traffic" is at best of tangential importance to users who care more about discussions and interactions than traffic. (this is on the assumption that traffic means page hits) It was just my response to people saying removing GD made LD a "dead site". Not my argument for why GD needs to remain closed.
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You can close GD everyday, it made me write a 6k words (so far ) story.
Finewiththat.jpg
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To be fair, right around when GD moved over to LD, the GD became really really awful.
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im kinda sad that gd died but lets be honest you guys killed it by yourselves
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to be fair GD was shit for the last 4k pages so what are you people even talking about
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I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end.
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On November 20 2014 07:38 Akfekeht wrote: unless your goal is to just make money ofc which im sure this site is well equipped to do,but if you want to be satisfied with this site being associated with just a calender than thats kinda sad to me
things need more soul than a sock with a hole We are in no way satisfied with that and the way the site has turned out. We are completely aware of the issues this site has, but when people like me and the others are just volunteers doing this for fun we can't magically make everything amazing. I haven't done a single thing since TI4 because I'm in my final year of uni and figuring out my life. Other people need to step up if they care about the site so much, it's not hard.
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On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something
Which isn't my thing
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thats a shame! itd be nice to see you there sometime
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On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible!
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I mean... yea its awful dont go there
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As a staff member Emulator, what do you think makes this site a good choice for a user looking for a dota community or dota content? What do think of the LD content? News? Articles? The moderation? What do you think the staff does to show a user you guys are trying hard to create an awesome site? I'm sure you can't/won't answer, or if you do it will be dishonest and 'towing' the line but I can say anecdotally from private conversations I've had with mods, most don't have time or energy, or care at all for that matter to do much of anything. Surely you have much more contact with these people than I do so you could give a better outlook than a few PM's or IRC conversations.
[edit1]I haven't done a single thing since TI4 because I'm in my final year of uni and figuring out my life. Other people need to step up if they care about the site so much, it's not hard. Why do you put this back on 'the community'? How are we supposed to know mods (aren't you even listed as one of the main editors under Heyoka?) don't have time and can't create content so we should 'step up' and volunteer ourselves? This site isn't ours, we don't know what is going on behind the scenes. If LD needs help, they should out reach the community, not the other way around. This is a huge cop-out and doesn't offer any sort of reasonable explanation at the lack of well, anything.
[edit2] to be clear, I don't care about the GD thread either, none of my criticisms of the site have anything to do with the GD thread other than the mods thinking closing it would create a more open community, I mean, the tavern was the solution... lol...
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@crms he just answered that by saying "look current staff haven't managed to pump out as much content as we'd like, it's up to the community to step up and generate that content". Thats his perspective on it.
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On November 20 2014 04:45 teddyoojo wrote: BRING BACK GD
Yes please. LD without GD just isn't the same. Honestly, I check out the media and entertainment section now more often than I do dota stuff.
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On November 20 2014 07:56 Sn0_Man wrote: @crms he just answered that by saying "look current staff haven't managed to pump out as much content as we'd like, it's up to the community to step up and generate that content". Thats his perspective on it. Kind of. Not saying it's the communities job or something and that it's their fault for no content, lol.
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If pro dota didn't die for me after TI3 i'd be up for contributing.
But it did. Gd was the only thing keeping me here tbh
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On November 20 2014 07:56 Sn0_Man wrote: @crms he just answered that by saying "look current staff haven't managed to pump out as much content as we'd like, it's up to the community to step up and generate that content". Thats his perspective on it. which is a total cop-out. we get that most everyone is a volunteer, we get that people are busy, but the people who run the site (aka the non volunteers who are paid administrators/owners) need to do a better job of reaching out for help from others or do it themselves. The very notion that users should diagnosis an issues like, 'lack of content because volunteers are busy' and then take it upon themselves to create content to grow the site is pretty fucking retarded. If the goal is to get community involvement, fucking do it, have contests (that you follow through on) post applications for volunteers in areas you need, maximize the efforts that can be done with the staff you have. Don't blame the community for not 'picking up the slack' of lazy, bored or busy volunteers, that's assine.
Also, to be clear just because someone is a 'volunteer' doesn't really excuse them from not doing anything or doing things poorly. That of course isn't on the volunteer, but again, on the site managers.
[edit 1]On November 20 2014 08:10 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 07:56 Sn0_Man wrote: @crms he just answered that by saying "look current staff haven't managed to pump out as much content as we'd like, it's up to the community to step up and generate that content". Thats his perspective on it. Kind of. Not saying it's the communities job or something and that it's their fault for no content, lol. Emu has clarified his post so the above rant wouldn't necessarily apply to him.
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Thanks for the response, I edited my original post to reflect your clarifications.
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Also keep in mind that its actually just wayyyy harder to provide decent game-related content for Dota than it is for SC2 or Cardstone.
There are, for example, 6 possible SC2 1v1 head to head matchups. 6(!). Dota (5v5) has literally a bigger number of hero matchups than most people can properly understand. While obviously there are different ways to play each matchup in SC2 depending on map or whatever, even with 100 maps thats still 600 possible scenarios if you will. Dota features millions upon millions.
So writing a guide for a given scenario in dota is fucking useless, even though in SC2 it makes for really interesting articles (like the breaking dreampool article that I personally enjoyed a lot even without much knowledge of current builds).
SC2 games are also far easier to analyze, both due to length and due to the substantially diminished number of decisions etc. It's usually pretty easy to tell who was ahead when, what they did well, and what they did wrong. In dota, it can be almost impossible to analyze the interaction of 10 people making simultaneous decisions in a fight for example. Even once that analysis is made, the value to an outside observer or especially reader is quite limited.
I'm not arguing that valuable content can't be generated, just that it's exceedingly difficult for dota in comparison to other games. Like SC2.
And not every tournament features fascinating games or great storylines. To be brutally honest, Reddit is simply a very efficient way of finding games that were exciting (as well as getting headlines on important results etc, less important stuff lives on liquipedia). Not that I watch replays but if I wanted to watch highlights, that is there. Technically Liquiddota could write a "great games" aggregation but even then many people disagree on what makes a good dota game (okay same goes for SC2 games). I guess at that stage you just need writers who have the time and inclination, which is definitely an issue.
just some thoughts.
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@crms I've read the entire thread and your post where you said you had a semi-finished "this is why LD sucks and this is how to fix it" is something I think most staff would be interested in seeing. I've been around TL for a long enough time to know that constructive criticism never falls on deaf ears. Even if all you have right now is a unfinished document it's something to work with.
In general I think that applies to most replies here. If you give out constructive criticism it will be taken in and at the very least reviewed. Does that mean that the GD thread will be back? No. Does that in turn mean that the tavern is the ultimate solution? Absolutely not.
It seems like most people here think changing something on the site goes something like this: Staffmember 1: "Hey lol. We should change X" Staffmember 2: "Meh. I don't give a shit anymore. Do it" Every change you see has been discussed extensevly. There's a thought behind it.
Also I'm a bit too lazy to scroll up right now but someone said they wanted the GD thread to discuss bf on am vs. bf on pa. Why not create a separate thread about it? Sure you might now get a 2 month thread with 1000's of replies, but it should turn into a good discussion.
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@Sn0_Man
I'm not a stranger to the shortcomings of trying to discuss dota, it's one of the headache inducing challenges of even having a forum related to such a game. I've had hundreds of pointless conversations about why dota is a nightmare for discussion in IRC and what you posted is part of it, but only scratches the surface.
Fortunately, not everything related to content has to be analysis driven. I think TL should have capitalized on the community side and offered more in the ways of community building than game analysis.
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A large part of the issue is that there really isn't any sense of community from the site. (GD closing funny enough didn't change it one way or the other, it's remained about neutral for everything tbh). The thing about that though is that there seems to be this kind of huge disconnect between everyone when the head mods of the site aren't really active in anything, and no one is putting out articles either. Granted finding writers is never easy, especially in a community that is fairly small, but to be honest I haven't even heard anything about you guys looking for more content, let alone writers for that content.
Also more mods need to be posting than just Yango. It's really kind of weird that he's one of the only people that you ever see posts from.
Lastly update your feckin hero index in the strategy forum you sloths. I posted about it months ago, and I bet you haven't even touched it. I even did all the work of getting the links for you as well. Though you're on your own for Techies and Oracle.
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On November 20 2014 04:45 teddyoojo wrote: BRING BACK GD
yep. except for those fucking graphs
LR is the main reason i come to LD and the calender
how much did site viewership drop after the team was ditched?
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The thing people want GD back for, in case some of you aren't sure, is to have a go to place to post random dota related shit. A Retard Central if you will. Some place where saying "huehue treant needs buffs" will be met with a "want some graphs with that?". I was considering various alternatives. We could maybe even get an imageboard kinda site going outside of TL, GD sure did feel like a really civil one after all. But in the end what I really miss is being able to f5 subscribed threads and not having to bother with all that "other threads' bs. Nobody went to GD with thread worthy topics anyways. People who think discussing a specific dota issue is worthy it's own topic are probably not someone I wanna discuss with.
Dota isn't serious business. Trust, I would have noticed.
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merge us back with the main site
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On November 20 2014 08:32 Qbek wrote: The thing people want GD back for, in case some of you aren't sure, is to have a go to place to post random dota related shit. A Retard Central if you will. Some place where saying "huehue treant needs buffs" will be met with a "want some graphs with that?". I was considering various alternatives. We could maybe even get an imageboard kinda site going outside of TL, GD sure did feel like a really civil one after all. But in the end what I really miss is being able to f5 subscribed threads and not having to bother with all that "other threads' bs. Nobody went to GD with thread worthy topics anyways. People who think discussing a specific dota issue is worthy it's own topic are probably not someone I wanna discuss with.
Dota isn't serious business. Trust, I would have noticed.
I just had a look at both TL and LH (just to make sure since i havent been active on either site for a while) and none of them had a "retard central". why would it then be needed for LD? TL isn't trying to be 4chan or NAdota. TL has always, for me, been about building something that is more serious than that.
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On November 20 2014 08:38 CorsairHero wrote: merge us back with the main site but that isn't the issue and would not make things better. and it just takes away from the sc2 site which is doing well at the moment.
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On November 20 2014 08:21 crms wrote: @Sn0_Man
I'm not a stranger to the shortcomings of trying to discuss dota, it's one of the headache inducing challenges of even having a forum related to such a game. I've had hundreds of pointless conversations about why dota is a nightmare for discussion in IRC and what you posted is part of it, but only scratches the surface.
Fortunately, not everything related to content has to be analysis driven. I think TL should have capitalized on the community side and offered more in the ways of community building than game analysis. Well they tried that with those community hero challenges
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oh dear.
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The hero community challenge was fine but it was horribly executed which is why almost no one did the second one.
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I'm certainly not against the concept
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On November 20 2014 08:45 Julmust wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 08:32 Qbek wrote: The thing people want GD back for, in case some of you aren't sure, is to have a go to place to post random dota related shit. A Retard Central if you will. Some place where saying "huehue treant needs buffs" will be met with a "want some graphs with that?". I was considering various alternatives. We could maybe even get an imageboard kinda site going outside of TL, GD sure did feel like a really civil one after all. But in the end what I really miss is being able to f5 subscribed threads and not having to bother with all that "other threads' bs. Nobody went to GD with thread worthy topics anyways. People who think discussing a specific dota issue is worthy it's own topic are probably not someone I wanna discuss with.
Dota isn't serious business. Trust, I would have noticed. I just had a look at both TL and LH (just to make sure since i havent been active on either site for a while) and none of them had a "retard central". why would it then be needed for LD? TL isn't trying to be 4chan or NAdota. TL has always, for me, been about building something that is more serious than that.
The GD community, below the thick layer of being on the internet, was a very serious band of brothers. If you came to my doorstep saying you know me from GD, I'd happily have you as a guest and evem I'd leave my house with you alone in it feeling safe.
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On November 20 2014 08:23 LeLoup wrote:
Also more mods need to be posting than just Yango. It's really kind of weird that he's one of the only people that you ever see posts from.
This is something worth mentioning.
Yango is really the only mod that ever posts about anything pretty much ever.
Which is odd because I was under the assumption he played League more than Dota.
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On November 20 2014 05:46 schmitty9800 wrote: Initially I was annoyed by your post since I like liquiddota.com a lot. But I do see your point. There really haven't been a lot of separate Dota 2 articles/content....every big tournament gets a write-up but there aren't a lot of separate strategy articles.
A lot of it is the nature of the game though. Basic learning articles would be redundant as that stuff is already out there. Plus, the pro experience vs. the pub experience are a lot further apart in Dota 2 vs. Starcraft 2. It's not like you can see a C9 strat and go and reproduce it in your pub games right away.
I'm pretty disappointed in the community in general. Imagine if literally every suggestion on TL was "macro better" (not that that isn't at least half of them :p). It seems that the only advice anyone gives is "last hit better" or "play better scrub".
Still, better than Reddit, I guess.
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I like this site a lot. The Dota focus is excellent. I agree that more articles would be nice, but that is only part of what makes this site.
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isn't yango a top level pokemon trainer
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On November 20 2014 08:45 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 08:38 CorsairHero wrote: merge us back with the main site but that isn't the issue and would not make things better. and it just takes away from the sc2 site which is doing well at the moment. wouldnt that make it easier to manage? I don't see how it takes away from the sc2 site. If the hardcore sc2'ers despise dota than they can take it out of the side bar. Putting LD back on the main site increases exposure. Just have a general/strat/tourny section like league. At this point liquidheath has even more active users than LD. Does LD currently have the amount of active users to justify breaking off from TL? LD made sense to me back when liquid dota actually meant there was a pro team associated with it.
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On November 20 2014 09:24 Kuroeeah wrote: isn't yango a top level pokemon trainer Actually yeah, he knows tons about pokemon.
There's something to be said, btw, about having LD away from TL to separate their calenders. Not sure its worth the trade.
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They were right. Liquid is a Starcraft site. A new domain with the Dota tag doesn't change the fact that it's Liquid and that people will associate it with Starcraft. I don't see what incentive there is for Dota fans that weren't already visitingTL to go to LiquidDota over existing dedicated Dota sites.
I don't think the site sucks, I just don't think there's enough of a LiquidDota fanbase to support voluntary contributions to the point that the site's interesting to visit every day. There's not enough content to come here from a purist learning the Dotars perspective, nor is there enough community bullshit to make it fun to frequent on its own. Which is why I believe it would've been better off on the main TL where there's already an established community.
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Quoted instead of edited, don't change links for hipster reasons
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On November 20 2014 09:31 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 09:24 Kuroeeah wrote: isn't yango a top level pokemon trainer Actually yeah, he knows tons about pokemon. There's something to be said, btw, about having LD away from TL to separate their calenders. Not sure its worth the trade. port sc2 calender to be like the LD one and make it more space optimized / enable a disabling function
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28057 Posts
On November 20 2014 09:45 Saechiis wrote: They were right. Liquid is a Starcraft site. A new domain with the Dota tag doesn't change the fact that it's Liquid and that people will associate it with Starcraft. I don't see what incentive there is for Dota fans that weren't already visiting the main site to go LiquidDota over existing dedicated Dota sites.
I don't think the site sucks, I just don't think there's enough of a LiquidDota fanbase to support voluntary contributions to the point that the site's interesting to visit every day. There's not enough content to come here from a purist learning the Dotars perspective, nor is there enough community bullshit to make it fun to frequent on its own. Which is why I believe it would've been better off on the main TL where there's already an established community to fall back on. The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement though. Obviously as is having it back on TL makes sense, but the original point was to grow LD's own community into something big one day. Why this hasn't happened has been talked about already in this thread.
Can the site still grow? Of course, but it needs initiative from people who work here full-time and from any volunteers (current or new) that might even have as little as 1-2 hours a week to contribute.
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
i think it's also because generally people affiliate TL to teamliquid.net and not liquiddota.com lol but there is a point about lack of content creation because a lot of the writers are busy/raging at losing mmr
(we need volunteers plz halp)
also we need GD back plz
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28057 Posts
On November 20 2014 10:15 konadora wrote: i think it's also because generally people affiliate TL to teamliquid.net and not liquiddota.com lol but there is a point about lack of content creation because a lot of the writers are busy/raging at losing mmr
(we need volunteers plz halp)
also we need GD back plz tbh there are other more important things to sort out before they get more volunteers. The fact that I'm the only staff member bothering to respond to this blog (and I'm not even active atm), should be an indicator of ONE of the MAJOR issues we have right now (lack of someone in a leadership position who seems to care). Having more volunteers but no guidance isn't good either.
edit: err, sorry Julmust replied here too.
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On November 20 2014 09:54 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 09:45 Saechiis wrote: They were right. Liquid is a Starcraft site. A new domain with the Dota tag doesn't change the fact that it's Liquid and that people will associate it with Starcraft. I don't see what incentive there is for Dota fans that weren't already visiting the main site to go LiquidDota over existing dedicated Dota sites.
I don't think the site sucks, I just don't think there's enough of a LiquidDota fanbase to support voluntary contributions to the point that the site's interesting to visit every day. There's not enough content to come here from a purist learning the Dotars perspective, nor is there enough community bullshit to make it fun to frequent on its own. Which is why I believe it would've been better off on the main TL where there's already an established community to fall back on. The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement though. Obviously as is having it back on TL makes sense, but the original point was to grow LD's own community into something big one day. Why this hasn't happened has been talked about already in this thread. Can the site still grow? Of course, but it needs initiative from people who work here full-time and from any volunteers (current or new) that might even have as little as 1-2 hours a week to contribute. The "hands off and let the community grow itself" approach only really works when you're the only game in town. TL.net was basically the only English site for competitive SC:BW content, so growing the community was almost synonymous with growing TL.net. Same thing with LiquidHearth, for the most part.
The problem with LiquidDota, as was said numerous times when the separation first happened, is that you were attempting to encroach in an already competitive environment. The community was already growing, and the community was already attached to other websites.
If you want a chunk of an already existing market, you're going to have to force your way in and make people come to you. How you choose to do that is up to the organization as a whole, but "build it and they will come" does not apply when you're trying to forcibly drag a user base from one site into yours.
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28057 Posts
On November 20 2014 10:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 09:54 TheEmulator wrote:On November 20 2014 09:45 Saechiis wrote: They were right. Liquid is a Starcraft site. A new domain with the Dota tag doesn't change the fact that it's Liquid and that people will associate it with Starcraft. I don't see what incentive there is for Dota fans that weren't already visiting the main site to go LiquidDota over existing dedicated Dota sites.
I don't think the site sucks, I just don't think there's enough of a LiquidDota fanbase to support voluntary contributions to the point that the site's interesting to visit every day. There's not enough content to come here from a purist learning the Dotars perspective, nor is there enough community bullshit to make it fun to frequent on its own. Which is why I believe it would've been better off on the main TL where there's already an established community to fall back on. The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement though. Obviously as is having it back on TL makes sense, but the original point was to grow LD's own community into something big one day. Why this hasn't happened has been talked about already in this thread. Can the site still grow? Of course, but it needs initiative from people who work here full-time and from any volunteers (current or new) that might even have as little as 1-2 hours a week to contribute. The "hands off and let the community grow itself" approach only really works when you're the only game in town. TL.net was basically the only English site for competitive SC:BW content, so growing the community was almost synonymous with growing TL.net. Same thing with LiquidHearth, for the most part. The problem with LiquidDota, as was said numerous times when the separation first happened, is that you were attempting to encroach in an already competitive environment. The community was already growing, and the community was already attached to other websites. If you want a chunk of an already existing market, you're going to have to force your way in and make people come to you. How you choose to do that is up to the organization as a whole, but "build it and they will come" does not apply when you're trying to forcibly drag a user base from one site into yours. I think you may have misread my post? I don't think I've ever said we had a "build it and they will come " approach. I literally just said in the post you quoted "The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement".
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It really isn't that bad, I don't think. LiquidHearth seems pretty fucking dead if you're expecting a bunch of shit to have happened in the 24 hours since you read it last, and its really not that different from my LiquidDota experience, except the content on LH seems to be more positive in general, for whatever reason.
I also disagree that a "build it and they will come" approach wouldn't work. There isn't really a singular "You go here for Dota content" site that's way better than any other, and LD has a better atmosphere than most as far as I'm concerned. What someone said earlier in the thread about Dota being a hard-as-fuck game to generate content for rings true, because not only is one 5v5 lineup vastly different than another 5v5 lineup, but also 5v5 at 3k mmr is extremely different than at 5k mmr is extremely different than pro. It isn't like Sc2 or Hearthstone where you can isolate strategic variables and talk about them, or have them be relevant at all levels or to a specific audience. You almost HAVE TO take a Day9 approach and review it on a game-by-game basis, but that amount of work merits creating your own brand, not just bolstering the Liquid one.
But yeah, I don't really think it's that bad. We've got content producers / guide writers / discussion stimulators and generally the content is smarter and less furious than most people you'll run into in casual pubs, so I'm okay with it. If I have fonder feelings for the site than I do the actual game, then it's probably not doing that bad.
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On November 20 2014 11:18 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 10:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 20 2014 09:54 TheEmulator wrote:On November 20 2014 09:45 Saechiis wrote: They were right. Liquid is a Starcraft site. A new domain with the Dota tag doesn't change the fact that it's Liquid and that people will associate it with Starcraft. I don't see what incentive there is for Dota fans that weren't already visiting the main site to go LiquidDota over existing dedicated Dota sites.
I don't think the site sucks, I just don't think there's enough of a LiquidDota fanbase to support voluntary contributions to the point that the site's interesting to visit every day. There's not enough content to come here from a purist learning the Dotars perspective, nor is there enough community bullshit to make it fun to frequent on its own. Which is why I believe it would've been better off on the main TL where there's already an established community to fall back on. The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement though. Obviously as is having it back on TL makes sense, but the original point was to grow LD's own community into something big one day. Why this hasn't happened has been talked about already in this thread. Can the site still grow? Of course, but it needs initiative from people who work here full-time and from any volunteers (current or new) that might even have as little as 1-2 hours a week to contribute. The "hands off and let the community grow itself" approach only really works when you're the only game in town. TL.net was basically the only English site for competitive SC:BW content, so growing the community was almost synonymous with growing TL.net. Same thing with LiquidHearth, for the most part. The problem with LiquidDota, as was said numerous times when the separation first happened, is that you were attempting to encroach in an already competitive environment. The community was already growing, and the community was already attached to other websites. If you want a chunk of an already existing market, you're going to have to force your way in and make people come to you. How you choose to do that is up to the organization as a whole, but "build it and they will come" does not apply when you're trying to forcibly drag a user base from one site into yours. I think you may have misread my post? I don't think I've ever said we had a "build it and they will come " approach. I literally just said in the post you quoted "The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement". Except it sounds very much like you were "planning" to have staff to be more passionate about DotA, and for the community to have more initiative to create content.
That's not a plan, that's literally just building the site and hoping other people make it grow.
Obviously this site as a whole is very much built on volunteers and people doing stuff just because they care (as konadora's blog rant shows quite well), but when people are doing all their DotA 2 "volunteering" on other websites, I don't really see any concerted attempts to draw those passionate people to this one.
On November 20 2014 11:28 Fleetfeet wrote: It really isn't that bad, I don't think. LiquidHearth seems pretty fucking dead if you're expecting a bunch of shit to have happened in the 24 hours since you read it last, and its really not that different from my LiquidDota experience, except the content on LH seems to be more positive in general, for whatever reason.
I also disagree that a "build it and they will come" approach wouldn't work. There isn't really a singular "You go here for Dota content" site that's way better than any other, and LD has a better atmosphere than most as far as I'm concerned. What someone said earlier in the thread about Dota being a hard-as-fuck game to generate content for rings true, because not only is one 5v5 lineup vastly different than another 5v5 lineup, but also 5v5 at 3k mmr is extremely different than at 5k mmr is extremely different than pro. It isn't like Sc2 or Hearthstone where you can isolate strategic variables and talk about them, or have them be relevant at all levels or to a specific audience. You almost HAVE TO take a Day9 approach and review it on a game-by-game basis, but that amount of work merits creating your own brand, not just bolstering the Liquid one.
But yeah, I don't really think it's that bad. We've got content producers / guide writers / discussion stimulators and generally the content is smarter and less furious than most people you'll run into in casual pubs, so I'm okay with it. If I have fonder feelings for the site than I do the actual game, then it's probably not doing that bad.
8 (?) months of this site existing, basically no growth in the active user numbers. I'd say that's a good sign that the current LiquidDota approach isn't drawing anyone new in.
Of course, maybe the active user number isn't an accurate representation.
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i copy paste / paraphrase relevant news and shit in LD at least
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28057 Posts
On November 20 2014 12:00 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 11:18 TheEmulator wrote:On November 20 2014 10:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 20 2014 09:54 TheEmulator wrote:On November 20 2014 09:45 Saechiis wrote: They were right. Liquid is a Starcraft site. A new domain with the Dota tag doesn't change the fact that it's Liquid and that people will associate it with Starcraft. I don't see what incentive there is for Dota fans that weren't already visiting the main site to go LiquidDota over existing dedicated Dota sites.
I don't think the site sucks, I just don't think there's enough of a LiquidDota fanbase to support voluntary contributions to the point that the site's interesting to visit every day. There's not enough content to come here from a purist learning the Dotars perspective, nor is there enough community bullshit to make it fun to frequent on its own. Which is why I believe it would've been better off on the main TL where there's already an established community to fall back on. The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement though. Obviously as is having it back on TL makes sense, but the original point was to grow LD's own community into something big one day. Why this hasn't happened has been talked about already in this thread. Can the site still grow? Of course, but it needs initiative from people who work here full-time and from any volunteers (current or new) that might even have as little as 1-2 hours a week to contribute. The "hands off and let the community grow itself" approach only really works when you're the only game in town. TL.net was basically the only English site for competitive SC:BW content, so growing the community was almost synonymous with growing TL.net. Same thing with LiquidHearth, for the most part. The problem with LiquidDota, as was said numerous times when the separation first happened, is that you were attempting to encroach in an already competitive environment. The community was already growing, and the community was already attached to other websites. If you want a chunk of an already existing market, you're going to have to force your way in and make people come to you. How you choose to do that is up to the organization as a whole, but "build it and they will come" does not apply when you're trying to forcibly drag a user base from one site into yours. I think you may have misread my post? I don't think I've ever said we had a "build it and they will come " approach. I literally just said in the post you quoted "The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement". Except it sounds very much like you were "planning" to have staff to be more passionate about DotA, and for the community to have more initiative to create content. That's not a plan, that's literally just building the site and hoping other people make it grow. We never planned for the community to make any content at all, that is a perk of a well established community like TL's and we didn't expect that from the start of LD. I'm not sure what you aren't getting to be honest. I never said any of those things. LD staff was extremely passionate before and during the start of LD, and the plan was to create the site and try to create the best content out of any site out there. We did good for a while, but as we've discussed in this thread a ton of things have happened which has stalled that growth.
Not at any point did I say we created this site and were like "oh well, let's see what happens"
Obviously this site as a whole is very much built on volunteers and people doing stuff just because they care (as konadora's blog rant shows quite well), but when people are doing all their DotA 2 "volunteering" on other websites, I don't really see any concerted attempts to draw those passionate people to this one. I mean, of course you haven't seen any attempts to draw people to contribute here. Because outside of the initial recruitment post I made when we started the site that hasn't happened at all.
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This is the best liquiddota content since as far back as I can remember.
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Ler's Art of Support is probably the best and only original content, that's not previews/wrapups, that has come out on LD for a while and that was great. The of lack of content is something all Dota sites seem to fail on I mean looking at JD, GG.net, and NADota they all post garbage. I feel like LD probably has the upper hand in that shit posting isn't completely tolerated so random people on the forums theoretically are more likely to contribute but that doesn't seem to be happening. I really don't know how to motivate people into getting into it.
+ Show Spoiler +
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What was the reasons for separating into LD again?
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Speaking for a moment about strategy. News is a different subject.
DOTA2 is a pretty godawful topic to write strategy guides on. No matter how good you are at writing it up, you've got to expect all your hard work to be invalidated one patch later. Oh, you want to write a section on how to deal with your build's counterpicks? Three months later you'll seem quaint at best and clueless at worst. It isn't the same way for SC2 or Hearthstone. The Blizzard balancing model has its flaws, but it does allow for a lot more stability. As a total scrub, you can take an old SC2 build or Hearthstone netdeck and expect it to perform decently well for you. Hell, for anyone trying to learn Protoss, I still start off teaching them the 4gate as a manageable introduction to the game, and that's been a joke for years. The closest thing we have to something eternal is that "Art of Support" thing. That was fairly solid, and it was solid because it deliberately avoided saying anything specific apart from pull times and the like. But let's be honest. It's almost never by means of learning grand notions of theory and practicing last-hitting ad nauseum that you get good at this game. It's by finding out little tricks to the game and drilling them into muscle memory that you improve.
The only time I can remember seeing a glut of guides for this game was the DotA Allstars days, back on Pendragon's forums before he shut it down in favor of League. And guess what? Most of those guides were terrible! There was no community to speak of, there was no matchmaking, and chances are that outside of inhouse leagues you'd be playing with scrubs and leavers every game. So Merlini's guide to Zeus that taught a bunch of stuff that should be obvious (seriously, by modern standards it was pretty basic) was revelatory in that light. Hell, just reading that stupid-simple guide to Zeus got me to the point where he was my best hero. But those days are gone, because everyone can just subscribe to Torte's builds instead. There's no room for that kind of guide any longer, where the content is basically just skill build and item build with some extra words tossed in. For fairness, though, I will note that the old Warding guide was pretty damn excellent.
So what do we have left? Basically, the tips and tricks. You can't write the kind of detailed guides that we expect out of, say, SC2 build orders for those. It's a totally different field, but it's still really important. Some of them are even impossible to describe. How do you actually know when you have potentially lethal damage, and when do you hold back and run? You can do the math, but generally on the spot you just have a sense for it, and that can't be taught. You might be expecting I have a proper answer for this, after typing it all out, but I don't. It's not an easy problem to solve, not in any way that will get a new audience showing up. Hell, I half expect I'm wrong about all of this, and the real problem is nobody giving a shit.
Whatever. Game is hard.
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On November 20 2014 12:18 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 12:00 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 20 2014 11:18 TheEmulator wrote:On November 20 2014 10:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On November 20 2014 09:54 TheEmulator wrote:On November 20 2014 09:45 Saechiis wrote: They were right. Liquid is a Starcraft site. A new domain with the Dota tag doesn't change the fact that it's Liquid and that people will associate it with Starcraft. I don't see what incentive there is for Dota fans that weren't already visiting the main site to go LiquidDota over existing dedicated Dota sites.
I don't think the site sucks, I just don't think there's enough of a LiquidDota fanbase to support voluntary contributions to the point that the site's interesting to visit every day. There's not enough content to come here from a purist learning the Dotars perspective, nor is there enough community bullshit to make it fun to frequent on its own. Which is why I believe it would've been better off on the main TL where there's already an established community to fall back on. The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement though. Obviously as is having it back on TL makes sense, but the original point was to grow LD's own community into something big one day. Why this hasn't happened has been talked about already in this thread. Can the site still grow? Of course, but it needs initiative from people who work here full-time and from any volunteers (current or new) that might even have as little as 1-2 hours a week to contribute. The "hands off and let the community grow itself" approach only really works when you're the only game in town. TL.net was basically the only English site for competitive SC:BW content, so growing the community was almost synonymous with growing TL.net. Same thing with LiquidHearth, for the most part. The problem with LiquidDota, as was said numerous times when the separation first happened, is that you were attempting to encroach in an already competitive environment. The community was already growing, and the community was already attached to other websites. If you want a chunk of an already existing market, you're going to have to force your way in and make people come to you. How you choose to do that is up to the organization as a whole, but "build it and they will come" does not apply when you're trying to forcibly drag a user base from one site into yours. I think you may have misread my post? I don't think I've ever said we had a "build it and they will come " approach. I literally just said in the post you quoted "The plan wasn't to have a lack of content and community involvement". Except it sounds very much like you were "planning" to have staff to be more passionate about DotA, and for the community to have more initiative to create content. That's not a plan, that's literally just building the site and hoping other people make it grow. We never planned for the community to make any content at all, that is a perk of a well established community like TL's and we didn't expect that from the start of LD. I'm not sure what you aren't getting to be honest. I never said any of those things. LD staff was extremely passionate before and during the start of LD, and the plan was to create the site and try to create the best content out of any site out there. We did good for a while, but as we've discussed in this thread a ton of things have happened which has stalled that growth. Not at any point did I say we created this site and were like "oh well, let's see what happens" Show nested quote +Obviously this site as a whole is very much built on volunteers and people doing stuff just because they care (as konadora's blog rant shows quite well), but when people are doing all their DotA 2 "volunteering" on other websites, I don't really see any concerted attempts to draw those passionate people to this one. I mean, of course you haven't seen any attempts to draw people to contribute here. Because outside of the initial recruitment post I made when we started the site that hasn't happened at all.
As a user interested in seeing more content how can I, and others like me, help?
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I never really understood the necessety of splitting away from TL. I never understood why closing GD was absolutely necessary. people had fun there. I wasn’t even a regular but occasionally just read a bit in it.
Well… unnecessary seems to be a pretty good description of this site as a whole
But the calendar is awsome
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OP mad that there is no TL Attack for Liquid Dota
BROOKLYN RAGE
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I'm pretty mad about that too. TL was amazing in the BW era.
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On November 20 2014 18:42 Velr wrote: I never really understood the necessety of splitting away from TL. I never understood why closing GD was absolutely necessary. people had fun there. I wasn’t even a regular but occasionally just read a bit in it.
Well… unnecessary seems to be a pretty good description of this site as a whole
But the calendar is awsome
You answered your own question lol
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Brand is everything. After almost 5 years of using tl, the site I go to read news about doto is ggnet. Why? Cause ggnet is a doto site, it always has being and always will be.
TL is just a foreigner to the doto cosmos, ggnet/garena forums/dota allstars forums were the spine of doto since the beginning.
It also doesn't help that the quality difference of the articles between the 2 sites is like day and night.
This last sentence isn't a dig at ld staff but a rational observation. Let me explain.
During bw the greatest foreigner players were actively participating in tl, even writing articles and stuff. The site was relatively unknown to non bw enthusiasts so these high profile players enjoyed a tight knit community. Same happened in doto with every flavor of the year pro league. IHCS forums, DotaInvite etc were the place for pro players to talk about the game. So obviously, ld is suffering from a lack of quality since pro players will never contribute here without getting paid. Also there's no reason for them to do so anymore. During wc3 doto pro leagues were a necessity so pro players would have a matchmaking system. After doto2 arrived this necessity eclipsed. There's no forum for them to gather and share their knowledge and perhaps the most eloquent of them to write flamboyant articles, like the bw section's featured articles for example.
tldr1: tl is not a doto brand tldr2: pro players dont participate in communities anymore, so content is rly abysmal in quality.
solution: LD or any other site rly, could hire some old respected pro players to enrich the flavor. For example, merlini, slahser, drayich, vigoss etc.
Im so awesome.
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I don't know why people make this shit so complicated. The site separation just makes one congested snot-filled site into segregated stuff.
Separation is, as Steveling said, for branding
2. because its fucking easier to separate things
3. there's so much dota and hearthstone content that it literally makes a site unreadable for people who like all the games. Even if you don't like all the games, it's a still a massive bitch to keep everything under one forum and condense discussions into 5 topics and one subforum.
For SC2 and Dota? It's doable, for SC2, Dota, Hearthstone and a bit of LoL and maybe Heroes of the Storm in the future and that tiny shred of Smash?
Fucking nuts.
Add in all that content on that tiny Featured News or Community News side-bar, the calendar chock full of crap I like and don't like. 4-5 different fucking filters for shit and a livestream side-bar that stretches longer than the Nile river and other crap.
Separate this shit.
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i was gonna write something but i figured it would be misunderstood and irrelevant so i deleted it and wrote this instead
TOO LONG COULDNT READ: trying to run a dota site the way u run a sc2 site was never going to work and im not sure how one would think it would
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On November 20 2014 04:45 teddyoojo wrote: BRING BACK GD the people will rise!
But yeah I'm outspokenly on the liquiddota sucks side of things, for the reasons qouted + the fact that the overlap on tl proper was how I found dota, how I rediscovered my love of smash, and for that matter how I rediscovered my love of bw. They lost something when they started splitting the site, and I'll hold to that opinion untill I see numbers to disprove.
Steveling you would like NAdota, the pros still interact there. Sometimes they even actually interact in a positive manner.
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before considering nadota id suggest joindota forums, everyones even friendlier than nadota and everyones a pro basically every thread feels as high quality as the qq thread (god knows why this still exists but gd doesnt)
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
at least LD feels more homely than places like joindota or reddit imo (no really)
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i started using reddit alot more after lds downfall but it doesnt feel right, ur right.
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Well I also started reading reddit in a desperate search for content, but I sure as hell don't post there. So since I don't post here anymore cause there is like, no new threads, ever, meaning O dont post anything anywhere. So to wrap it up, there is no new post here, the quality if post on reddit is terrible so dota's community is pretty dead for me, at least I still play.
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On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible!
I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC.
Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about.
As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there
And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away.
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reddit only fulfills some content. the reality is no english dota2 site adequately covers all coverage bases from the matches & games to the sporadic drama to the mundane daily random shit. the problem now is that when the GD thread got destroyed, nobody wanted to make new threads for random shit in the tavern a la reddit style
if i want actual dota2 match information, i usually check gg.net though it isnt 100% complete anymore. TL has tried to improve this but it's still very much lacking
if i want random shit to pass the time, reddit
if i want to post in an online community, TL.
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On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it.
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hey guys this site sucks ass but at least we have LIQUIDDOTA GOLD
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On November 20 2014 14:50 Acritter wrote: Speaking for a moment about strategy. News is a different subject.
DOTA2 is a pretty godawful topic to write strategy guides on. No matter how good you are at writing it up, you've got to expect all your hard work to be invalidated one patch later. Oh, you want to write a section on how to deal with your build's counterpicks? Three months later you'll seem quaint at best and clueless at worst. It isn't the same way for SC2 or Hearthstone. The Blizzard balancing model has its flaws, but it does allow for a lot more stability. As a total scrub, you can take an old SC2 build or Hearthstone netdeck and expect it to perform decently well for you. Hell, for anyone trying to learn Protoss, I still start off teaching them the 4gate as a manageable introduction to the game, and that's been a joke for years. The closest thing we have to something eternal is that "Art of Support" thing. That was fairly solid, and it was solid because it deliberately avoided saying anything specific apart from pull times and the like. But let's be honest. It's almost never by means of learning grand notions of theory and practicing last-hitting ad nauseum that you get good at this game. It's by finding out little tricks to the game and drilling them into muscle memory that you improve.
The only time I can remember seeing a glut of guides for this game was the DotA Allstars days, back on Pendragon's forums before he shut it down in favor of League. And guess what? Most of those guides were terrible! There was no community to speak of, there was no matchmaking, and chances are that outside of inhouse leagues you'd be playing with scrubs and leavers every game. So Merlini's guide to Zeus that taught a bunch of stuff that should be obvious (seriously, by modern standards it was pretty basic) was revelatory in that light. Hell, just reading that stupid-simple guide to Zeus got me to the point where he was my best hero. But those days are gone, because everyone can just subscribe to Torte's builds instead. There's no room for that kind of guide any longer, where the content is basically just skill build and item build with some extra words tossed in. For fairness, though, I will note that the old Warding guide was pretty damn excellent.
So what do we have left? Basically, the tips and tricks. You can't write the kind of detailed guides that we expect out of, say, SC2 build orders for those. It's a totally different field, but it's still really important. Some of them are even impossible to describe. How do you actually know when you have potentially lethal damage, and when do you hold back and run? You can do the math, but generally on the spot you just have a sense for it, and that can't be taught. You might be expecting I have a proper answer for this, after typing it all out, but I don't. It's not an easy problem to solve, not in any way that will get a new audience showing up. Hell, I half expect I'm wrong about all of this, and the real problem is nobody giving a shit.
Whatever. Game is hard. i think guides are not necessary for strategy discusion these days because as you said, information gets old quickly. whats more is that the truly good people dont really at all want to write guides, and to be honest the days of guides being really revelatory are gone. its not that guides went downhill, its that the advent of dota2 streaming and replays made play styles far more transparent. if you want to learn from the best (for playing in pubs), watching is far easier than reading about it.
so what can be done is that discussion threads are made healthy with knowledgeable people imparting information to the less knowledgeable people without all the bullcrap. of course its hard to keep the bullshit out but thats what strategy mods are theoretically there for
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yep the skill required to write a sc2 strategy article vastly differs from the dota2 equivalent
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On November 21 2014 00:32 teddyoojo wrote: yep the skill required to write a sc2 strategy article vastly differs from the dota2 equivalent
i can confirm
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On November 20 2014 23:55 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 14:50 Acritter wrote: Speaking for a moment about strategy. News is a different subject.
DOTA2 is a pretty godawful topic to write strategy guides on. No matter how good you are at writing it up, you've got to expect all your hard work to be invalidated one patch later. Oh, you want to write a section on how to deal with your build's counterpicks? Three months later you'll seem quaint at best and clueless at worst. It isn't the same way for SC2 or Hearthstone. The Blizzard balancing model has its flaws, but it does allow for a lot more stability. As a total scrub, you can take an old SC2 build or Hearthstone netdeck and expect it to perform decently well for you. Hell, for anyone trying to learn Protoss, I still start off teaching them the 4gate as a manageable introduction to the game, and that's been a joke for years. The closest thing we have to something eternal is that "Art of Support" thing. That was fairly solid, and it was solid because it deliberately avoided saying anything specific apart from pull times and the like. But let's be honest. It's almost never by means of learning grand notions of theory and practicing last-hitting ad nauseum that you get good at this game. It's by finding out little tricks to the game and drilling them into muscle memory that you improve.
The only time I can remember seeing a glut of guides for this game was the DotA Allstars days, back on Pendragon's forums before he shut it down in favor of League. And guess what? Most of those guides were terrible! There was no community to speak of, there was no matchmaking, and chances are that outside of inhouse leagues you'd be playing with scrubs and leavers every game. So Merlini's guide to Zeus that taught a bunch of stuff that should be obvious (seriously, by modern standards it was pretty basic) was revelatory in that light. Hell, just reading that stupid-simple guide to Zeus got me to the point where he was my best hero. But those days are gone, because everyone can just subscribe to Torte's builds instead. There's no room for that kind of guide any longer, where the content is basically just skill build and item build with some extra words tossed in. For fairness, though, I will note that the old Warding guide was pretty damn excellent.
So what do we have left? Basically, the tips and tricks. You can't write the kind of detailed guides that we expect out of, say, SC2 build orders for those. It's a totally different field, but it's still really important. Some of them are even impossible to describe. How do you actually know when you have potentially lethal damage, and when do you hold back and run? You can do the math, but generally on the spot you just have a sense for it, and that can't be taught. You might be expecting I have a proper answer for this, after typing it all out, but I don't. It's not an easy problem to solve, not in any way that will get a new audience showing up. Hell, I half expect I'm wrong about all of this, and the real problem is nobody giving a shit.
Whatever. Game is hard. i think guides are not necessary for strategy discusion these days because as you said, information gets old quickly. whats more is that the truly good people dont really at all want to write guides, and to be honest the days of guides being really revelatory are gone. its not that guides went downhill, its that the advent of dota2 streaming and replays made play styles far more transparent. if you want to learn from the best (for playing in pubs), watching is far easier than reading about it. so what can be done is that discussion threads are made healthy with knowledgeable people imparting information to the less knowledgeable people without all the bullcrap. of course its hard to keep the bullshit out but thats what strategy mods are theoretically there for Maybe the "appropriate" approach to DOTA2 content is the blog, then. Just sit down and write about some of your games, what some new concepts are doing for you. Spark feedback on a few choices. Start the discussion that way. The scrubs sit down and learn from your wisdom. The pros descend from heaven to reveal why you in fact suck at the game.
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simply because, where the fuck do i even go when i have random shit to say? GD was great, there was some circlejerk and some drunk posting but overall it was a good hangout place.
Nowadays i post the most in TLADT >_>. Like ya, i used to stop by to some SC2 related threads/news/stream etc but nowadays i cant even see them anymore so i could be bothered.
They should have integrated it better like if you are pro-dota then you get your personalized setup when you view the forum, separating the games out sucks for me. Like sometimes i would like to read some HS forum too but it is just not convenient for me = me not visiting liquidhearth.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it.
irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams
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On November 21 2014 01:37 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it. irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams and dreams and rap battles and old man bullying and viper the rapper
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On November 21 2014 01:37 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it. irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams It appears I have missed out on nothing by no logging in for a couple months. My tolerance for internet racism is at an all time low right now.
Seriously folks, I like GD as much as everyone else, but that thread turned into a hot mess with terrible shit posting(beyond the normal shit posting and graphs). There are plenty of other things to discuss on the site. I really have no issues with the site as it is and it sort of seems like the same group of 10 people always bring up this topic.
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On November 21 2014 01:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 01:37 Targe wrote:On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it. irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams It appears I have missed out on nothing by no logging in for a couple months. My tolerance for internet racism is at an all time low right now. Seriously folks, I like GD as much as everyone else, but that thread turned into a hot mess with terrible shit posting(beyond the normal shit posting and graphs). There are plenty of other things to discuss on the site. I really have no issues with the site as it is and it sort of seems like the same group of 10 people always bring up this topic.
10 people is the whole active population.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 21 2014 01:46 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 01:37 Targe wrote:On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it. irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams and dreams and rap battles and old man bullying and viper the rapper
actually thats a good point, our only redeeming feature is our music discussion. like, theres some top lvl music discussion going down in this shit
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On November 21 2014 01:51 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 01:50 Plansix wrote:On November 21 2014 01:37 Targe wrote:On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it. irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams It appears I have missed out on nothing by no logging in for a couple months. My tolerance for internet racism is at an all time low right now. Seriously folks, I like GD as much as everyone else, but that thread turned into a hot mess with terrible shit posting(beyond the normal shit posting and graphs). There are plenty of other things to discuss on the site. I really have no issues with the site as it is and it sort of seems like the same group of 10 people always bring up this topic. 10 people is the whole active population. I question your fact finding methods on this and your stats. I see plenty of people posting who are not those people. I also have noticed that those same 10 people or so often say they are the most active part of the LD population, while providing very little(also known as "zero") in evidence to back this up.
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On November 21 2014 01:37 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it. irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams I don't even notice the ponies anymore
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Only thing worth coming here for is the live report threads and previews so I can see whats going on. Otherwise liquiddota is just teamliquid with the subforums being linked together except for blogs, and the blogs here suck. I'd like to see dota2 on teamliquid again, I think the game filter on teamliquid was good enough so people don't have to see dota if they don't want to, and just filter it out.
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On November 21 2014 00:59 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 23:55 rabidch wrote:On November 20 2014 14:50 Acritter wrote: Speaking for a moment about strategy. News is a different subject.
DOTA2 is a pretty godawful topic to write strategy guides on. No matter how good you are at writing it up, you've got to expect all your hard work to be invalidated one patch later. Oh, you want to write a section on how to deal with your build's counterpicks? Three months later you'll seem quaint at best and clueless at worst. It isn't the same way for SC2 or Hearthstone. The Blizzard balancing model has its flaws, but it does allow for a lot more stability. As a total scrub, you can take an old SC2 build or Hearthstone netdeck and expect it to perform decently well for you. Hell, for anyone trying to learn Protoss, I still start off teaching them the 4gate as a manageable introduction to the game, and that's been a joke for years. The closest thing we have to something eternal is that "Art of Support" thing. That was fairly solid, and it was solid because it deliberately avoided saying anything specific apart from pull times and the like. But let's be honest. It's almost never by means of learning grand notions of theory and practicing last-hitting ad nauseum that you get good at this game. It's by finding out little tricks to the game and drilling them into muscle memory that you improve.
The only time I can remember seeing a glut of guides for this game was the DotA Allstars days, back on Pendragon's forums before he shut it down in favor of League. And guess what? Most of those guides were terrible! There was no community to speak of, there was no matchmaking, and chances are that outside of inhouse leagues you'd be playing with scrubs and leavers every game. So Merlini's guide to Zeus that taught a bunch of stuff that should be obvious (seriously, by modern standards it was pretty basic) was revelatory in that light. Hell, just reading that stupid-simple guide to Zeus got me to the point where he was my best hero. But those days are gone, because everyone can just subscribe to Torte's builds instead. There's no room for that kind of guide any longer, where the content is basically just skill build and item build with some extra words tossed in. For fairness, though, I will note that the old Warding guide was pretty damn excellent.
So what do we have left? Basically, the tips and tricks. You can't write the kind of detailed guides that we expect out of, say, SC2 build orders for those. It's a totally different field, but it's still really important. Some of them are even impossible to describe. How do you actually know when you have potentially lethal damage, and when do you hold back and run? You can do the math, but generally on the spot you just have a sense for it, and that can't be taught. You might be expecting I have a proper answer for this, after typing it all out, but I don't. It's not an easy problem to solve, not in any way that will get a new audience showing up. Hell, I half expect I'm wrong about all of this, and the real problem is nobody giving a shit.
Whatever. Game is hard. i think guides are not necessary for strategy discusion these days because as you said, information gets old quickly. whats more is that the truly good people dont really at all want to write guides, and to be honest the days of guides being really revelatory are gone. its not that guides went downhill, its that the advent of dota2 streaming and replays made play styles far more transparent. if you want to learn from the best (for playing in pubs), watching is far easier than reading about it. so what can be done is that discussion threads are made healthy with knowledgeable people imparting information to the less knowledgeable people without all the bullcrap. of course its hard to keep the bullshit out but thats what strategy mods are theoretically there for Maybe the "appropriate" approach to DOTA2 content is the blog, then. Just sit down and write about some of your games, what some new concepts are doing for you. Spark feedback on a few choices. Start the discussion that way. The scrubs sit down and learn from your wisdom. The pros descend from heaven to reveal why you in fact suck at the game. doesnt even need to be blogs, just chuck everything in the tavern
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whats the difference between community news and dota 2 general? I see the exact same threads in the sidebar
Are there any non admins/mods against merging back with TL?
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merging is useless and wont happen stop talking about it
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On November 21 2014 01:51 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 01:50 Plansix wrote:On November 21 2014 01:37 Targe wrote:On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it. irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams It appears I have missed out on nothing by no logging in for a couple months. My tolerance for internet racism is at an all time low right now. Seriously folks, I like GD as much as everyone else, but that thread turned into a hot mess with terrible shit posting(beyond the normal shit posting and graphs). There are plenty of other things to discuss on the site. I really have no issues with the site as it is and it sort of seems like the same group of 10 people always bring up this topic. 10 people is the whole active population. Also the same number of people that are continuously whining about 'bring GD back.'
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On November 21 2014 04:28 teddyoojo wrote: merging is useless and wont happen stop talking about it this from
On November 20 2014 04:45 teddyoojo wrote: BRING BACK GD lel
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On November 21 2014 04:29 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 04:28 teddyoojo wrote: merging is useless and wont happen stop talking about it this from lel
the struggle is real!!!
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I don't post much any more. I don't play the game, and barely watch it, and let's be honest I didn't have a lot to say even while I did both of those things actively. My only recent, eh, contribution was engaging in pointless speculation in TL Team Discussion thread.
But I do like the feel of this place. It has a bit of a chill vibe to it the way old TL.net or later the BW section of TL did. It sporadically produces great content (Art of Support, the TI team articles, and so on). It's not crowded and I can recognize most people's usernames. Yes, there's a lack of famous players / personalities posting, but when someone does like Aui recently, he's reasonably accessible and you're not just one of the thousands of people asking questions as you would be over Twitter or Reddit. Bulba used to post quite often, but it seems he stopped after he left the team.
To be honest I really never cared for preview/recap articles in any of the games TL covers, I see it as mostly filler content made just so that there's something going on in the news feed. Obviously with the exception of some really extraordinary ones, such as SKT vs KT SPL finals preview and recap - look at that shit, just LOOK at it.
Honestly, I don't think SC2 coverage and articles are a lot better, there's just more of it. What really makes the difference is that there's a passion in writing that exudes from the articles like the ones I linked above, but that has long since been substituted by dry esports journalism. Whether we get one such article a week or a dozen doesn't really make too much of a difference to me.
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On November 21 2014 04:28 LeLoup wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 01:51 Steveling wrote:On November 21 2014 01:50 Plansix wrote:On November 21 2014 01:37 Targe wrote:On November 20 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. Oh no, it's still happening, this time we talk WoW and hearthstone, kollin's gone, racism is as rampant as ever. I like it. irc is literally wow, hearthstone, racism, complaining about software engineering, ponies and me and comeh plugging our streams It appears I have missed out on nothing by no logging in for a couple months. My tolerance for internet racism is at an all time low right now. Seriously folks, I like GD as much as everyone else, but that thread turned into a hot mess with terrible shit posting(beyond the normal shit posting and graphs). There are plenty of other things to discuss on the site. I really have no issues with the site as it is and it sort of seems like the same group of 10 people always bring up this topic. 10 people is the whole active population. Also the same number of people that are continuously whining about 'bring GD back.' You have my net!
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On November 21 2014 04:28 teddyoojo wrote: merging is useless and wont happen stop talking about it liquidsmash, liquidhots, liquidlol and liquidmafia?
maybe a liquidGameOfThones? liquidGameOfThonesBookTalk?
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LiquidCandyCrush? LiquidClashofClans? LiquidSim4?
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I would fully endorse a LiquidGameOfThronesBookTalk
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On November 21 2014 06:15 Plansix wrote: LiquidCandyCrush? LiquidClashofClans? LiquidSim4? still better than hearthstone heh
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
On November 21 2014 06:16 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 06:15 Plansix wrote: LiquidCandyCrush? LiquidClashofClans? LiquidSim4? still better than hearthstone heh damn lol
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On November 21 2014 06:16 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 06:15 Plansix wrote: LiquidCandyCrush? LiquidClashofClans? LiquidSim4? still better than hearthstone heh Oh reverse double burn.
I was super into hearthcard and then fell right out. I might go back.
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On November 21 2014 04:44 Talin wrote:I don't post much any more. I don't play the game, and barely watch it, and let's be honest I didn't have a lot to say even while I did both of those things actively. My only recent, eh, contribution was engaging in pointless speculation in TL Team Discussion thread. But I do like the feel of this place. It has a bit of a chill vibe to it the way old TL.net or later the BW section of TL did. It sporadically produces great content (Art of Support, the TI team articles, and so on). It's not crowded and I can recognize most people's usernames. Yes, there's a lack of famous players / personalities posting, but when someone does like Aui recently, he's reasonably accessible and you're not just one of the thousands of people asking questions as you would be over Twitter or Reddit. Bulba used to post quite often, but it seems he stopped after he left the team. To be honest I really never cared for preview/recap articles in any of the games TL covers, I see it as mostly filler content made just so that there's something going on in the news feed. Obviously with the exception of some really extraordinary ones, such as SKT vs KT SPL finals preview and recap - look at that shit, just LOOK at it. Honestly, I don't think SC2 coverage and articles are a lot better, there's just more of it. What really makes the difference is that there's a passion in writing that exudes from the articles like the ones I linked above, but that has long since been substituted by dry esports journalism. Whether we get one such article a week or a dozen doesn't really make too much of a difference to me.
I still find tournament discussion on LD better than any english site in the world. (occasionally we get people like Mensol lol) JD/reddit/gosugamers/nadota all lack the intelligence of the TL/LD community. The old GD/merged site led a lot of the SC2 crowd into Dota2, but I don't think there's a silver bullet to reinvigorating this website.
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On November 20 2014 09:15 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 08:23 LeLoup wrote:
Also more mods need to be posting than just Yango. It's really kind of weird that he's one of the only people that you ever see posts from.
This is something worth mentioning. Yango is really the only mod that ever posts about anything pretty much ever. Which is odd because I was under the assumption he played League more than Dota.
TBH Yango is a gift to LD and this community
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On November 21 2014 07:37 bagels21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 04:44 Talin wrote:I don't post much any more. I don't play the game, and barely watch it, and let's be honest I didn't have a lot to say even while I did both of those things actively. My only recent, eh, contribution was engaging in pointless speculation in TL Team Discussion thread. But I do like the feel of this place. It has a bit of a chill vibe to it the way old TL.net or later the BW section of TL did. It sporadically produces great content (Art of Support, the TI team articles, and so on). It's not crowded and I can recognize most people's usernames. Yes, there's a lack of famous players / personalities posting, but when someone does like Aui recently, he's reasonably accessible and you're not just one of the thousands of people asking questions as you would be over Twitter or Reddit. Bulba used to post quite often, but it seems he stopped after he left the team. To be honest I really never cared for preview/recap articles in any of the games TL covers, I see it as mostly filler content made just so that there's something going on in the news feed. Obviously with the exception of some really extraordinary ones, such as SKT vs KT SPL finals preview and recap - look at that shit, just LOOK at it. Honestly, I don't think SC2 coverage and articles are a lot better, there's just more of it. What really makes the difference is that there's a passion in writing that exudes from the articles like the ones I linked above, but that has long since been substituted by dry esports journalism. Whether we get one such article a week or a dozen doesn't really make too much of a difference to me. I still find tournament discussion on LD better than any english site in the world. (occasionally we get people like Mensol lol) JD/reddit/gosugamers/nadota all lack the intelligence of the TL/LD community. The old GD/merged site led a lot of the SC2 crowd into Dota2, but I don't think there's a silver bullet to reinvigorating this website. If we're being honest, the site overall is better than most other communities. We have the best strategy forum of anywhere, the LR threads are certainly better for following/reacting to tournaments than reddit, and the Tavern is pretty nice to chill and talk about the random stuff.
The thing it lacks is the things the community can't do (not without help at least). Original content and interaction with staff being the two biggest ones IMO. Activity on the forum isn't an issue, but it doesn't feel like a dota 2 website so much as a place where a lot of people just talk about Dota 2.
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On November 21 2014 09:08 LeLoup wrote: The thing it lacks is the things the community can't do (not without help at least). Original content and interaction with staff being the two biggest ones IMO.
No shit, I can't even tell who's a god damned admin in this place.
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if you cant report them then they're admin
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Science proven and tested. I am never able to report Firebolt or Emu, but I keep checking.
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irc is pretty nice i dont see any racism or anything
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On November 21 2014 11:51 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 09:08 LeLoup wrote: The thing it lacks is the things the community can't do (not without help at least). Original content and interaction with staff being the two biggest ones IMO. No shit, I can't even tell who's a god damned admin in this place.
this is a decent point. on TL you could really see the involvement from the staff in blogs, strategy ect. on LD I don't think I know a single new mod after the sites split and I have this site open every day. I think this does affect how people interact and how involved they get with the community here.
Personally I just enjoyed seeing all the different icons the mods used on TL
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On November 21 2014 16:40 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 11:51 Yergidy wrote:On November 21 2014 09:08 LeLoup wrote: The thing it lacks is the things the community can't do (not without help at least). Original content and interaction with staff being the two biggest ones IMO. No shit, I can't even tell who's a god damned admin in this place. this is a decent point. on TL you could really see the involvement from the staff in blogs, strategy ect. on LD I don't think I know a single new mod after the sites split and I have this site open every day. I think this does affect how people interact and how involved they get with the community here. Personally I just enjoyed seeing all the different icons the mods used on TL
Wasn't Firebolt a new mod? I can't remember
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On November 21 2014 09:08 LeLoup wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 07:37 bagels21 wrote:On November 21 2014 04:44 Talin wrote:I don't post much any more. I don't play the game, and barely watch it, and let's be honest I didn't have a lot to say even while I did both of those things actively. My only recent, eh, contribution was engaging in pointless speculation in TL Team Discussion thread. But I do like the feel of this place. It has a bit of a chill vibe to it the way old TL.net or later the BW section of TL did. It sporadically produces great content (Art of Support, the TI team articles, and so on). It's not crowded and I can recognize most people's usernames. Yes, there's a lack of famous players / personalities posting, but when someone does like Aui recently, he's reasonably accessible and you're not just one of the thousands of people asking questions as you would be over Twitter or Reddit. Bulba used to post quite often, but it seems he stopped after he left the team. To be honest I really never cared for preview/recap articles in any of the games TL covers, I see it as mostly filler content made just so that there's something going on in the news feed. Obviously with the exception of some really extraordinary ones, such as SKT vs KT SPL finals preview and recap - look at that shit, just LOOK at it. Honestly, I don't think SC2 coverage and articles are a lot better, there's just more of it. What really makes the difference is that there's a passion in writing that exudes from the articles like the ones I linked above, but that has long since been substituted by dry esports journalism. Whether we get one such article a week or a dozen doesn't really make too much of a difference to me. I still find tournament discussion on LD better than any english site in the world. (occasionally we get people like Mensol lol) JD/reddit/gosugamers/nadota all lack the intelligence of the TL/LD community. The old GD/merged site led a lot of the SC2 crowd into Dota2, but I don't think there's a silver bullet to reinvigorating this website. If we're being honest, the site overall is better than most other communities. We have the best strategy forum of anywhere, the LR threads are certainly better for following/reacting to tournaments than reddit, and the Tavern is pretty nice to chill and talk about the random stuff. The thing it lacks is the things the community can't do (not without help at least). Original content and interaction with staff being the two biggest ones IMO. Activity on the forum isn't an issue, but it doesn't feel like a dota 2 website so much as a place where a lot of people just talk about Dota 2.
Yeah, I felt like the peak level of production from Liquid Dota/TLDota2 was probably TI3. Oh well, I still enjoy this site the most (sometimes I read r/dota2 for lolz purposes/hate - case in point, ad rant right now that's 1500+ comments strong)
"but it doesn't feel like a dota 2 website so much as a place where a lot of people just talk about Dota 2" too true
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- I think heartstone and sc2 liquid communities are bigger, because its more openminded and both are mostly a 1v1 games. Even a bronze league player can post new topics backed by data, in those topics master players still thank the bronzenoobs for their contribution, analysis and effort (even if the quality of the content is debatable, but thats besides the point).
- On liquiddota, members in some cases focus more on winning an argument ("only 1 answer possible" kind off attitude) or downvoting someones argument instead of just trying to answer the question based on their own experiences. Even open minded people in normal life tend to fight off an aggressive reaction to a post they just made, maybe liquiddota community is in puberty and it will eventually blow over and grow after .
E: im not jesus, i sometimes argue too.
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On November 21 2014 14:45 Erasme wrote: irc is pretty nice i dont see any racism or anything Don't mind Erasme, he is a known blind person
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Yeah Mod's definitely need something more distinctive. I have no idea who is staff or a mod on this site unless they say they are
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On November 21 2014 23:56 YourGoodFriend wrote: Yeah Mod's definitely need something more distinctive. I have no idea who is staff or a mod on this site unless they say they are
Uruk Hai logo's instead of doto ones;)
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Seeing the same article on the front page for 20 days straight doesn't help no
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On November 22 2014 00:48 spacer wrote: Seeing the same article on the front page for 20 days straight doesn't help no Write a new one. Seriously. That shit doesn't write itself and the people doing it don't get paid.
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
this lack of response from the admins is worrying though
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On November 22 2014 00:55 ahswtini wrote: this lack of response from the admins is worrying though Emu's made literlaly 16 posts in this thread
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On November 22 2014 00:58 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 00:55 ahswtini wrote: this lack of response from the admins is worrying though Emu's made literlaly 16 posts in this thread MATH HARD! Remember Emu is an admin, also hard, even though I said it earlier on the page.
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He also said he isn't involved due to being in his final year of uni. Math might be hard, but reading seems to be even harder
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On November 22 2014 01:11 Qbek wrote: He also said he isn't involved due to being in his final year of uni. Math might be hard, but reading seems to be even harder no he said he isn't generating content. He's still an admin, still participates in decision making etc.
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On November 22 2014 01:19 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 01:11 Qbek wrote: He also said he isn't involved due to being in his final year of uni. Math might be hard, but reading seems to be even harder no he said he isn't generating content. He's still an admin, still participates in decision making etc. Like this thread, for instance. Banning fools doesn't take nearly as much time as writing stuff.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
only real moderation ive had done on me recently is kupo
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I don't know anything about moderation on this site but i'm pretty suspicious that this site is like 90+% moderated by fb/kupo/emu (and heyoka when he wasn't mia).
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28057 Posts
I'm not an admin.
edit: I think ahswtini's concern is that no admins like Heyoka have responded or someone from TLHQ like Naz/R1CH, etc.
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It seems a little weird to expect R1CH or Nazgul to respond to a rant titled "This Site Sucks" and I am confused as to what they would say beyond "sorry you feel that way guys".
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
On November 22 2014 01:37 Sn0_Man wrote: I don't know anything about moderation on this site but i'm pretty suspicious that this site is like 90+% moderated by fb/kupo/emu (and heyoka when he wasn't mia). yeah I meant like the people who actually call the shots and not just the banlings no offence
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
On November 22 2014 01:56 Plansix wrote: It seems a little weird to expect R1CH or Nazgul to respond to a rant titled "This Site Sucks" and I am confused as to what they would say beyond "sorry you feel that way guys". it may be a rant but it's generated some serious discussion about the state of the site, with speculation and conjecture thrown in that could ideally be quashed by numbers they may have
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
site admins have responded to previous similar threads with their thoughts
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On November 22 2014 02:01 Targe wrote: site admins have responded to previous similar threads with their thoughts Exactly, this has all happened before and will happen again. Discussion is great, but R1CH and Naz have had this discussion already.
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So they talked about it.
But I feel like this website is at a low right now....so either they dont care or it hasn't been addressed, or the solution is taking a long time to come around or hasn't worked.
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On November 22 2014 02:49 Sn0_Man wrote: or heyoka disappeared Pretty sure hes dealing with some IRL stuff for a week or so.
Its been worse for far longer than he's been gone.
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Its a busy time of year for a lot of people. Its the holidays in the states and those don't end till January. Winter is Coming and shit.
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I love the cycle of this thread.
Criticism (some constructive) -> "dead site" -> apologist.
I guess it's been a 'busy' time since the site released. Nazgul doesn't own and run this site because he's charitable. He's offering us a platform because he thinks its financially viable and worthwhile to his Liquid brand. Maybe it is, none of us will know without the data but enough of the community feel he's offering a bad product, and mods/admins/volunteers by their own admission are 'too busy' to do anything with the site, so I'm not sure there is much else to say other than changes clearly need to happen.
We don't need to make excuses about the lacking features/content of the site, we need people to do something, or not I suppose. If the site is making enough as is and adding additional content isn't cost/time effective I guess they don't need to do shit. I just know to me, the site sucks. Outside of the calendar and the upcoming LPCL (which is user content) there isn't anything worth coming to this site for. Which is something I couldn't ever imagine saying about a Liquid site. I was a pretty big fucking fan boy.
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On November 22 2014 06:04 crms wrote: I love the cycle of this thread.
Criticism (some constructive) -> "dead site" -> apologist.
I guess it's been a 'busy' time since the site released. Nazgul doesn't own and run this site because he's charitable. He's offering us a platform because he thinks its financially viable and worthwhile to his Liquid brand. Maybe it is, none of us will know without the data but enough of the community feel he's offering a bad product, and mods/admins/volunteers by their own admission are 'too busy' to do anything with the site, so I'm not sure there is much else to say other than changes clearly need to happen.
We don't need to make excuses about the lacking features/content of the site, we need people to do something, or not I suppose. If the site is making enough as is and adding additional content isn't cost/time effective I guess they don't need to do shit. I just know to me, the site sucks. Outside of the calendar and the upcoming LPCL (which is user content) there isn't anything worth coming to this site for. Which is something I couldn't ever imagine saying about a Liquid site. I was a pretty big fucking fan boy.
I'm pretty sure being mad and throwing a tantrum with no constructive advice is not helping
We've already discussed above; reality is that LD currently lacks user-generated content. The question is how we're going to get more. You paint Nazgul like he's some corporate shareholder, but I highly doubt he's running LD for the ROI, otherwise he'd be spamming the site with ads.
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edit: not worth it, I'm just going to laugh instead.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
crms is trying to get people to start actually talking about changes that need to come around instead of people posting saying ded site or people defending the site against these people
hes not throwing any temper tantrum
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Its a volunteer driven site, the simplest solution if you have an issue with the lack of content would be to write some of your own. Or run an event like LeLoup, or put together inhouse games like Rocketbear used to. I would love to do stuff, but I really just don't have the time to do it right now.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
i applied but was turned down
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While user content is great, and a boon to the site. I can't blame the users for not offering up quality content when they're not seeing any from those that actually manage the site. I think it's quite surprising that the main critique being discussed is the 'users' aren't making enough content for the site to be successful. I mean, that's some crazy backward thinking.
The ones whose responsibility to grow the community and build the site should be creating an experience that the users are excited to be more involved in and add to the greatness, not create the greatness. You can't offer little to nothing and then blame the community for not making your site great.
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28057 Posts
I don't think anyone blamed the community at all? The staff is taking full responsibility for anything that has sucked. My only point is that if people want things to be better then you can try to do so. Nothing more was said (unless I worded soemthing wrong or someone else said it?).
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Nah, Emu, this wasn't a response to you. I appreciated your responses to my inquires earlier in the thread. I was more responding to users blaming users, or thinking the only issue with LD is users aren't creating enough content.
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28057 Posts
oh, sorry. I thought that post was in reference to the staff.
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On November 22 2014 07:10 crms wrote: While user content is great, and a boon to the site. I can't blame the users for not offering up quality content when they're not seeing any from those that actually manage the site. I think it's quite surprising that the main critique being discussed is the 'users' aren't making enough content for the site to be successful. I mean, that's some crazy backward thinking.
The ones whose responsibility to grow the community and build the site should be creating an experience that the users are excited to be more involved in and add to the greatness, not create the greatness. You can't offer little to nothing and then blame the community for not making your site great.
Not going to respond to Targe's post, but look, we're still getting a fair number of new users. (go to a news thread or tournament thread and look at join dates and post counts for the users). I think it's a stretch to say the site entirely "sucks", but it does have problems.
We still have the best strategy forum and liquidpedia is so good people like bts use it. LD is still moderated fairly well and you don't see much shitposting. Yes there's a lot less "community" oriented threads like the old TL had (like mafia or kpop etc.) but that's outside the realm of Dota2. Yes, I wish guys like phantasmal, sunfish (i enjoyed that drow/visage article a lot), and riptide (All-Pick!) wrote more, but I understand that they're doing this not for profit but from their own personal interest/enjoyment.
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I am not blaming the community in any way. I am just pointing out that vague claims of "the site could be better" that are not in any way specific. If people want stuff to be better, show up and get involved. I would love to do more stuff with Inhouse games, but I am always busy on Saturday.
Edit: Confirmed that IRC is not the place to hang out.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
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28057 Posts
Can the two of you stop posting unless it's contributing to the discussion (referring to the two obvious shit posts on this page). We're trying not to moderate this thread too much since we want honest discussion. But come on...
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
ok emu
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And people wonder why GD was shut down.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
actually in the few weeks up to gd getting shut all of irc was petitioning for it to get shut down
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On November 22 2014 07:27 TheEmulator wrote: Can the two of you stop posting unless it's contributing to the discussion (referring to the two obvious shit posts on this page). We're trying not to moderate this thread too much since we want honest discussion. But come on... I dunno man, there isn't really anything being discussed here. I read every post and am no wiser when it comes what the fuck this shit is about. It seems people are content with how LR and strategy is on this site and the things other people miss is some sort of community activity. But since this site shares the community section with TL, why would we limit ourselves to just LD O.o So in reality, it's a classic internet argument where one side disagrees with another on a purely subjective matter and all argumentation is moot.
Nobody can do write ups for dota tournaments these days, it's impossible to watch them all and have a life(even for a single region)
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On November 22 2014 07:35 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 07:27 TheEmulator wrote: Can the two of you stop posting unless it's contributing to the discussion (referring to the two obvious shit posts on this page). We're trying not to moderate this thread too much since we want honest discussion. But come on... I dunno man, there isn't really anything being discussed here. I read every post and am no wiser when it comes what the fuck this shit is about. It seems people are content with how LR and strategy is on this site and the things other people miss is some sort of community activity. But since this site shares the community section with TL, why would we limit ourselves to just LD O.o So in reality, it's a classic internet argument where one side disagrees with another on a purely subjective matter and all argumentation is moot. Nobody can do write ups for dota tournaments these days, it's impossible to watch them all and have a life(even for a single region)
that was a very well put together summary lol
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Dunno, it's not hard to do a summary of sizeable lans which LD has/had been doing but they aren't that interesting.
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On November 22 2014 07:35 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 07:27 TheEmulator wrote: Can the two of you stop posting unless it's contributing to the discussion (referring to the two obvious shit posts on this page). We're trying not to moderate this thread too much since we want honest discussion. But come on... I dunno man, there isn't really anything being discussed here. I read every post and am no wiser when it comes what the fuck this shit is about. It seems people are content with how LR and strategy is on this site and the things other people miss is some sort of community activity. But since this site shares the community section with TL, why would we limit ourselves to just LD O.o So in reality, it's a classic internet argument where one side disagrees with another on a purely subjective matter and all argumentation is moot. Nobody can do write ups for dota tournaments these days, it's impossible to watch them all and have a life(even for a single region)
Agreed with what was written above, good summary. but this is great feedback to work with (and we're hoping for more). now if the thread is dead to you then let it be. there is absolutely no need for you to try to turn what, so far, has been a thread with quality feedback into something else with a shitpost like "Currently on IRC *screenshot* lulz we're so random!!!111".
The lack of community activity is something that, too me, needs to be LD specific. We do share the general forums, but we have the tavern and general discussion and those are good places to organize such things. To build a LD community feeling.
Anyone with any feedback, please continue posting. I know all staff is following this thread and changed will be made because of it. It doesn't matter if you're upset and want to rant. Post it! (but please give us some advice)
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
the meanwhile in irc post was a reference to previous posts in the thread where people discussed the quality of irc discussion
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On November 22 2014 07:30 Targe wrote: actually in the few weeks up to gd getting shut all of irc was petitioning for it to get shut down and then irc ppl made it get shut down :s
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 22 2014 08:48 teddyoojo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 07:30 Targe wrote: actually in the few weeks up to gd getting shut all of irc was petitioning for it to get shut down and then irc ppl made it get shut down :s ye that was kind of the idea behind the last 2 pages of posting, the thread closing had been talked about for ages, we just pushed the date forwards i assume
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On November 22 2014 08:48 teddyoojo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 07:30 Targe wrote: actually in the few weeks up to gd getting shut all of irc was petitioning for it to get shut down and then irc ppl made it get shut down :s IRC people are the Illuminati m8, get your tinfoil hats before they get ya .
I've no interest in prodota anymore but I'd like to stay with this community. What I want is some way of connecting with the liquiddota community that doesn't involve too much dota >.> How does one achieve that?
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GD
User was warned for this post
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The thing I miss about the GD thread is that I could go there and get random ppl for shitty nonranked CD games. Now I don't really have a good place to go recruit an amazing army of talented players anymore because I don't think starting a new thread is worth it. TT
Really hard to make new content as well, most ppl want it from youtube but my comp is too shit for that. Don't know what I can do tbh sorry
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
you can honestly just pop into irc if ur wanting ppl like that, usually 1 or 2 regulars that owuld play and its filled with randoms now
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ya IRC is always dead there's no point in even wasting your time
LD has like no community without a good shitpost thread - without it you're doomed to read the same shit over and over cuz DotA isn't like SC2 and can't just be typed about
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Emu you're still the only staff member (non active to make matters worse) that bothered responding. All I'm left with from this thread is that the people that's actually leading the site actually don't give a shit about it otherwise an effort would have been made to let us know something is being done about it. It's really fucking sad that what we have now is the result of "Liquid Dota" being it's own thing and now I know why i'm pissed about having it segregated from TL.net.
I know it's not entirely fair for me to compare this site with TL.net but just look at how that site is being run in comparison to LiquidDota. Do you think it would be acceptable for TL.net to be at the same level of incompetence that Liquid Dota currently is? I've always held respect for TL.net not only for the community that came from it but also for staff that ran the site. Please, if LD isn't going to merge with TL.net again than at the very least turn this site into something better than this shit.
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Yeah staff besides from Emu don't give a fuck.
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I think there maybe a flaw in how we members view and contribute content on liquiddota. The sexy contentpart of dota lies in drafts, not in the individual heros. Technically speaking the drafts in dota2 are alot deeper then any sc2 strategy could ever be and are applicable from the trench to 7k mmr. I found an internet calculator which stated 103 heros result in 87541245 possible 5man drafts (seems alot dont know if its true), i think those 87541245 drats are the most sexy and interesting part of dota2.
For comparison, sc2 doesnt have busy individual unit topics, but strategytopics are highly valued (buildorders, timings & unitcontrol). Maybe the strategy section of liquiddota and all of its members should focus more on drafts, combo's and execution. Maybe the staff could try to incentisive (i cant find the spelling, hope u guys understand what i mean) user generated content about drafts in the strategy section or even on liquipedia (as a draft/strategyhub from which we can cherrypick drafts). It is a bit wierd we talk alot about individual heros in topics but never a draft, execution of combo;s etcetc, the game is alot more dynamic then what we mostly debate about.
I.e. The doctors without borders strategy or Lers supportguide which has alot of draftingtechnicalities init aswell, are really good examples of user generated content most of us value highly. Doctor without borders strategy also shows that highly valued content doesnt have to be written by or for a hightier player and gets alot more interesting when the game is viewed as a whole and not a single hero.
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The problem with dota, unlike sc2, is that dota is much more highly dependent on each specific individual game than SC2 is. Things, even early on, are situational on numerous things, which is nearly impossible to communicate at times. Also, the dunning krueger effect is highly relevant in dota2 comparitively, so there are lots of people who think they know what they are talking about that have no idea, and the ones that are qualified enough to talk about it don't want to deal with everyone else.
Also I think there are roughly 3 people that are qualified enough to talk about strategy as its related to dota 2 in these forums, and I'm probably not one of them.
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I've had about 6-8 meta related questions that I wanted to discuss but I cannot since GD thread was closed, bring it back, it was mostly chitchat, but it was still a great place to discuss dota related stuff which now you cannot.
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On November 23 2014 04:21 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote: I've had about 6-8 meta related questions that I wanted to discuss but I cannot since GD thread was closed, bring it back, it was mostly chitchat, but it was still a great place to discuss dota related stuff which now you cannot.
Why not just post it?
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
post it in the simple questions thread, make a thread of ur own, make a blog or come to irc dood
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2774 Posts
On November 22 2014 18:53 Kuroeeah wrote: Emu you're still the only staff member (non active to make matters worse) that bothered responding. All I'm left with from this thread is that the people that's actually leading the site actually don't give a shit about it otherwise an effort would have been made to let us know something is being done about it. It's really fucking sad that what we have now is the result of "Liquid Dota" being it's own thing and now I know why i'm pissed about having it segregated from TL.net.
I know it's not entirely fair for me to compare this site with TL.net but just look at how that site is being run in comparison to LiquidDota. Do you think it would be acceptable for TL.net to be at the same level of incompetence that Liquid Dota currently is? I've always held respect for TL.net not only for the community that came from it but also for staff that ran the site. Please, if LD isn't going to merge with TL.net again than at the very least turn this site into something better than this shit.
On November 22 2014 18:55 Jaaaaasper wrote: Yeah staff besides from Emu don't give a fuck. People do, it is being discussed and has been to a certain extent before.
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United States13143 Posts
On November 22 2014 18:53 Kuroeeah wrote: Emu you're still the only staff member (non active to make matters worse) that bothered responding. All I'm left with from this thread is that the people that's actually leading the site actually don't give a shit about it otherwise an effort would have been made to let us know something is being done about it. It's really fucking sad that what we have now is the result of "Liquid Dota" being it's own thing and now I know why i'm pissed about having it segregated from TL.net.
I know it's not entirely fair for me to compare this site with TL.net but just look at how that site is being run in comparison to LiquidDota. Do you think it would be acceptable for TL.net to be at the same level of incompetence that Liquid Dota currently is? I've always held respect for TL.net not only for the community that came from it but also for staff that ran the site. Please, if LD isn't going to merge with TL.net again than at the very least turn this site into something better than this shit. Not that I don't agree with your main point, but Julmust is staff as well.
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It seems like people are afraid of creating new threads in the tavern. We don't have to have just one huge thread to talk in. Create a thread for for fun pugs or a thread about drafts or a thread about whatever just don't make it shit. I don't see where the fear comes from. Those type of topics are practically what the tavern was created for.
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28057 Posts
On November 23 2014 07:04 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 18:53 Kuroeeah wrote: Emu you're still the only staff member (non active to make matters worse) that bothered responding. All I'm left with from this thread is that the people that's actually leading the site actually don't give a shit about it otherwise an effort would have been made to let us know something is being done about it. It's really fucking sad that what we have now is the result of "Liquid Dota" being it's own thing and now I know why i'm pissed about having it segregated from TL.net.
I know it's not entirely fair for me to compare this site with TL.net but just look at how that site is being run in comparison to LiquidDota. Do you think it would be acceptable for TL.net to be at the same level of incompetence that Liquid Dota currently is? I've always held respect for TL.net not only for the community that came from it but also for staff that ran the site. Please, if LD isn't going to merge with TL.net again than at the very least turn this site into something better than this shit. Not that I don't agree with your main point, but Julmust is staff as well. To clarify, and this is something I think I said on the first or second page, but a lot of our staff do care a lot.
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Im just spamming my shit and brainfarts (not saying these are any good but do what you will with it tl-gods). I truly think liquiddota suffers too much from AP topics (ind. hero threads) thats not good for contentvalue anymore, imo LD needs more CM.CD strategy & execution oriented threads.
I.e. Create three pocketstrategy examplethreads based on a template which can be short if the original poster wants too and has a nice look and feel too it. After those three threads sunk in do a mini-draftthread-tournament were the contentcreators of the most highly valued draftthreads win a custom hero for their portret (brain of pinky&the brain etc). If it would take off members would maybe start too enjoy creating content for LD more and the ld content could snowball a little.
And portrets are a bit similar to collectables, so maybe if someone creates alot of contentvalue for LD as a member, you get a bonuspotret to choose from or another kind of incentive just like on TL.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
So I've just finished reading this thread and the first thing I want to say is that the concerns raised here are generally valid. + Show Spoiler [GD] +GD isn't coming back. Kirsed quite rightly pointed out the tavern is meant to serve the same purpose as GD, minus the one massive thread. People should not be afraid to create new threads in there as the standard for 'what is thread worthy' is lower than what people probably assume. Aside from GD, the main complaint here seems to be around concerns about coverage and concerns over strategy. This reflects our own internal discussions about the health of LD and despite our best efforts to make positive changes in these areas we simply lack the staff to make our vision for this a reality. This isn't to say our current staff suck or anything, its been one of those weird periods of time where a number of our key staff have had real life things to take care of and we're not sure how to replace them.
LD staffwise is a lot closer to TL during BW than when SC2 came around. With that said, the team is ambitious and aims to have coverage on par with any of our other sites. This means that when a few key people are no longer around we really feel the bind and things suffer as a result. Should we have put out a hiring post for this? I guess we could have, but as others have said what this site needs most right now is leadership, and that's something we can't really hire for.
Of course these aren't excuses for the lack of coverage or the lack of love strategy has, merely insight into what's going on internally.
I guess the comparison to BW era TL isn't far off actually, at that point in time we were heavily dependent on the community doing cool things. From people like MyDigitalToss posting random images from Korea, Grandinquisitor and Jkilla doing a ton of R&S threads to pretty much every staff member who found themselves in that position through their contributions to the site in some way.
People don't create a thread like this one if they didn't care about the site -- why waste time/effort making this thread when you can just pass on and forget about the site. We're a site which will happily support our community when they want to do cool things on the site; want to organise a second hero challenge? just make a thread (or better still, let us know so we can give you all the support you need for it). Have a cool strategy guide for a hero that you think could be taken to the next level? Get in contact, we might be able to get some designs going for that (and might just be the start of strategy templates... #thedream). It can even be as simple as seeing something interesting from a Chinese site (even something as insignificant as some silly photoshops) and cross posting it to LD, it'd really make the place a lot better. Of course, anyone who does contribute over some time we'd be interested in staffing (and promote pretty rapidly!)
So yeah, I don't have much else to add. Please keep the feedback coming though, even if a lot of these issues are known to us it helps us work out our priorities. And don't worry, no one is going to get banned for saying this site is shit (as long as you explain why of course!)
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On November 22 2014 09:02 Rocket-Bear wrote: The thing I miss about the GD thread is that I could go there and get random ppl for shitty nonranked CD games. Now I don't really have a good place to go recruit an amazing army of talented players anymore because I don't think starting a new thread is worth it. TT
Really hard to make new content as well, most ppl want it from youtube but my comp is too shit for that. Don't know what I can do tbh sorry
This is actually something we can fix ourselves though. A steam group for finding people to pub with is extremely feasible as there is one already, just need to get the word out to be active in it. Another option is to get more people on IRC and organize pubs through there. I suppose we could ask LD staff to setup something on the site for it, but I feel more reasonable using a steam group or irc.
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28057 Posts
Could just make a let's pub together thread of some sort.
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Or use the ingame guild system, or an ingame chat channel. Steam groups require an additional window to use properly, I dislike them for that very reason. Threads require a lot of steps between "let's play!" and actually getting into a party. Just use the ingame tools guys, it's not rocket science.
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Definitely a lot of good feedback here. As Plexa said our coverage team is going through some difficult issues currently. Heyoka who has done a great job heading LiquidDota is going through some life stuff currently. On our end we haven't been able to jump in and cover for him as well as we would have liked. We have every intention of stepping up our coverage.
Our coverage isn't meant as a click generator. What it does is it sets a trend of effort, energy, quality, which in turn makes a site a fun place to hang out at. That's how we have always seen it and we will make it a priority that it goes back to that. Although we could definitely use new blood in our staff, and if you want to help out in any way you're more than welcome to respond, first and foremost we have to solve some internal things with our writing staff. There still are talented and motivated writers on our staff and there are things we have to do better to get more out of that.
I've always enjoyed the community here a lot. The atmosphere the past year has been great. although as shown by this thread lately it's not as good. I do think we have a great group of users here. The site for me is fun to hang out at than other Dota sites and it definitely is different in a good way from gosugamers/joindota/reddit.
One of the things we can do a better job at is to create events that involve the community. Whether that is inhouse games, hero challenges, or bracket contests. Someone mentioned that the staff doesn't interact as much here as it does on TL. I don't necessarily know whether that is true. However on LiquidDota you can't even see if someone is a staff member so it also gets lost a lot of the time. We will make staff more recognizable in the nearby future. Staff being a part of the community of course is really important.
As Plexa said there are a lot of valid concerns in this thread. Things we can work on. Things we can do better. Keep the feedback coming.
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I understand the sentiment that a lot of you enjoyed TL.net with both SC2 and Dota content. The reality, however, is that I'd be willing to bet my life that every person posting that viewpoint, has had current or previous interest in SC2 and/or TL.
There's a lot more to it. We also cover BW, Hearthstone and would like to cover Heroes in the future. TL previously was already piling out with stuff and became incredibly hard to use. The right sidebar was an enormous mess and served basically no one except those who enjoyed both SC2 and Dota (and everything in-between). There's just so many issues related to it that are a lot more complicated than just enjoying both SC2 and Dota in one place.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I just wanted to weigh in and say that TL has always been about volunteers stepping up, often on their own out of interest and desire to help the site (s), to help TL improve. The view on this might be different on LD, but that is how it has happened in almost every aspect of TL since forever ago.
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Lol. You have my respect for that.
Don't necessarily agree but thanks for the post.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
its finished!
respect dattish
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if gd is a Synagogue, does that make 'what is a mangix' the Talmud?
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On November 24 2014 02:50 PassiveAce wrote: if gd is a Synagogue, does that make 'what is a mangix' the Talmud? Is Talmud a single sentence?
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On November 24 2014 02:55 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 02:50 PassiveAce wrote: if gd is a Synagogue, does that make 'what is a mangix' the Talmud? Is Talmud a single sentence?
Alur can probably boost that.
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On November 24 2014 02:55 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 02:50 PassiveAce wrote: if gd is a Synagogue, does that make 'what is a mangix' the Talmud? Is Talmud a single sentence? Frankly, it could do with some editing.
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thanks to the admins for the responses. I wont echo what has already been said so often in this thread, but I hope we can get LD back on track together!
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Make me a mod so I can usher in a golden age for LD
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I'd be the 'cool and hip' parent and the other mods can be the strict and mean ones + Show Spoiler +except Emu, he's cool and hip too
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 04:31 solidbebe wrote: thanks to the admins for the responses. I wont echo what has already been said so often in this thread, but I hope we can get LD back on track together! The fact that you guys continue to stick with us is really awesome <3 LD truly has the best community
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thanks for not having me perma'd yet :D
also a big thing tl/ld still has going for it is its really good image in the dota scene, even in the pro scene aui posts here sometimes, ee said he posts a blog here later, fluff posts his blogs here etc. a thing one could do for example, aui just started his replay analyse thing, why not try to work together with him, help him pick replays etc. i dont even know and then feature his vids here. this is just a general suggestion of what i think could be done (no idea if a thing like this could actually be done from either side)
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I don't see why it would be bad at all to give the community back what they want and what has worked for such a long time in the past (and continues to work in the LoL forum). Dattish-sama brought up a lot of valid points, yet most of them have already been fairly haphazardly dismissed by the site administration in the past. Usually to the tone of: "Meh, we don't want to have a GD for unsubstantiated reason X."
I can sort of understand why you would want to have the different sites for different games, although it would probably be better to just create an easier to customise, and more accessible content filter on the main TL page. Seriously, it works so well for so many forums. You can read something like SA just fine, and it doesn't even have a sidebar.
I'll go on a bit of a tangent here, so please excuse me. There's not a single good reason to do things differently from what the majority of posters prefers when it comes to basic forum organisation. Even TL staff managed to listen to the LD user base occasionally. If the General forums wouldn't have been made accessible from LD, it probably would be even more of a ghost town. You want to keep the site useable and fun for people who are already there, not for some obscure group of people who occasionally stop by. On that note, I have yet to hear a single substantiated argument opposing the GD thread. There's nothing backing up that what the majority of the active community wants is bad. Just obtuse statements from the administration that GD mysteriously turned into a terrible, terrible thing killing LD . The abilty to have a honest discussion about this (and that includes the possibility of it reopening) where the admins opposed to it expound the alleged problems of a GD thread would already go a long way. Note: I am not saying that the last couple weeks of GD posts weren't subpar and that it doesn't need moderation at all. But the current tavern is just terrible for so many reasons.
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I'm pretty sure the number of people who regularly used the GD thread is no where near the majority of people on the site. Perhaps the most active, but one could argue making a bunch of shit posts is only "active" by the most very basic of definitions. It's pretty easy to get your post count up when you're just using the thread like an IM service.
A GD thread is all well and good if it's actually serving the purpose for which it was intended. Apparently it wasn't possible to use it for its intended purpose though. LD isn't going to sink or swim based upon reopening the GD thread. LD will sink or swim based on putting out content which people show up for, new people. Having some sort of standards if you want to be the "classy" DotA site. Keeping a handful of users happy talking in circles in a thread isn't going to increase the user base.
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Any chance for dota TL attack streams?
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On November 24 2014 06:29 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 04:31 solidbebe wrote: thanks to the admins for the responses. I wont echo what has already been said so often in this thread, but I hope we can get LD back on track together! The fact that you guys continue to stick with us is really awesome <3 LD truly has the best community Off topic, but it's got to be BW era with OSL/MSL/Proleague coverage, TSL tourny's, liquid attack, the korean translators etc :D
Anyways, I don't really see a reason to not have a stricter GD (not spamming yung lean repeatedly and people pushing the limits of post quality on purpose) You can't really expect new comers to just start making threads even if your criteria for that maybe lower than what others think.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Alright, here's why we can't bring back GD (at least how it was before it was closed).
The big reason is that it's bad for the site's long term growth. The thread was at a point where people would post news stories within GD and a mini-discussion would happen about that within the thread. But the whole point behind having a dedicated dota site is that such a news story should get it's own thread. Iirc, one such instance was a discussion about YouPorn entering esports where Heyoka eventually made a separate thread about it. Okay so a thread was made so no harm done? The problem is that users didn't think they could open a thread about the topic and/or thought that the most appropriate place to put it was dota GD. When a casual user comes to LD for information it's rather unintuitive for them to search GD for the latest information, that should be in a separate thread. So on this first level, GD can't exist for this.
The next level is the kind of toxic shitposting that goes on in that thread. Of course this can be moderated and was moderated to some extent, but the ultimate outcome of this was that it creates a very insular community. You can also see this to some extent with league's GD pre-roffles perms (so is a problem endemic to GD threads in general). Again this doesn't invite new users to join LD which is kinda bad for the site. Additionally, while there was definitely a GD community that was not pleased with the thread closure, prior to the closing of the forum a similarly sized subset of users were complaining about GD and wanted it purged from the site. The reason commonly cited for that was the toxic shitposting.
Of course we appreciated that it was seen as a community hub for LD, so we created the Tavern to compensate and give a specific place for LD users to congregate and form a community. But allowing GD to continue was something we saw as a serious barrier to site growth and losing the thread was a necessary (but unfortunate) growing pain the site is going to go through.
So my question to you is, what does GD offer above the Tavern? And suggestively, why can't the Tavern fill the same/similar space as the old thread did?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 09:31 Jutranjo wrote: Any chance for dota TL attack streams? Not going to rule it out! But not with the current staff (since HB is working on ESEX full time and he was pretty much integral to the running of it before.) It'd be great to bring it back one day.
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ddos!
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On November 24 2014 09:44 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 09:31 Jutranjo wrote: Any chance for dota TL attack streams? Not going to rule it out! But not with the current staff (since HB is working on ESEX full time and he was pretty much integral to the running of it before.) It'd be great to bring it back one day. Yeah i requested this shit back in late 2012, early 2013.... requested again late 2013... Same answer and never see any progress.
The state of TLDotA right now is volunteers are being drained away as other places actually offer money for quality contents. For lesser quality contents, its much better to publish them over on Reddit to bypass the editorial moderation TL has. Plus the views over on reddit is much much higher anyway. I find myself visit TL less and less often. If anything i mostly visit for the calendar and Liquipedia but hardly ever care for reading forum threads etc...
And im not the only one either. Hotbid and sirjolt left for ESEX is one thing, Wax has also left and doing some sort of freelance for ESL. "Burnt out" said Hotbid in his Reddit AMA. Im counting the clock until Heyoka got pulled out by dreamhack or something...
To be honest, I dont know what the main cause for TL became less popular is. Some would blame it on reddit as its a much better forum structure and replacing most message boards and news site like TL, ongamers, gamespots. Some could blame moderation rules, admin decision to split the sites etc... An open discussion about direction of the site is definitely needed imo.
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I suppose there's quite a difference in philosophy then. Why exactly does some random person from youporn posting on twitter that they might possible, maybe, at some point in the distant future sponsor a team deserve its own thread? Is it relevant information that people need to be exposed to for longer than a day or two? Probably not. How often has someone actually complained about the fact that they couldn't find a piece of obtuse news? Not like every little scrap of news has its own news post since the split either.
LD can't be reddit, and I don't see why it should be. Sure, you could stick up a thread for every little scrap of news there is, but then you're just attempting to replicate what reddit does without having a system to rate the content.
Most people will agree that toxic shitposting is not what you want out of a thread and that 420blazeityungleansudokumangix-posts should be moderated. However I fail to see how this leads to the GD population isolating itself from the rest of the forum. People can freely participate, and I can think of only 5 people out of all the hundreds that posted who might have gotten actively discouraged to post there by the rest of its population. (Not that it stopped any of them from continuously doing so either. :D) At worst a new guy posts something stupid, gets laughed at for half a page and people discuss why Tide is an innitiator and not a tank before everything goes back to normal. It's the internet, people are not going to hold your hand and welcome you into a new community simply because there are so many new faces, you'll just have to put yourself out there and engage with the denizens of your chosen corner of this elysian multifariousness. If that's what keeps someone from partaking, the problem lies with them, not all the other people.
As a quick discourse, people who didn't like the GD don't need to read it. It contained most of the bad posting and memes it spawned in itself. If someone doesn't like its style, why should it concern them if all they need to do is to not click on it. For example, I think that the US politics thread is an awful, awful thread full of weird Americans and their silly opinions so the only reason to read it amuse myself. Does that mean it should get closed?
The tavern is worse because it does nothing better (apart from providing a rough index of what people talked about in the last x amount of time, I guess? Yet it's not even great at that because a threads contents are often not congruent with its topic/OP), but many things worse than the old GD. It's such a hassle to comb through >1 threads, find something you're interested in, and still have a less diverse/interesting discussion because there are fewer people with an opinion on said topic who found their way into a specific thread than there would be if it was talked about in the old GD.
The comparison between a honeycomb and a jar of honey seems apt to me. One of them, you just stick your spoon in and eat however much you feel like, the other makes you work to get little bits and pieces. So why can't we have our honey jar back?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Well I think your post is reflective of your passion for GD, so kudos for that.
I will point out, however, that your post actual explains why we rather have a site without it. But let me address some minor points first. First of all, we think LD is different to reddit and we're pretty content with that. The tavern doesn't seek to replicate reddit in the slightest. Second, the youporn example was just one off the top of my head. I don't recall every instance of this happening, but it certainly was an issue. Third, your comparison to politics megathread isn't quite right. This is because we're not a politics website, but if (god forbid) we opened an american politics site then we'd need to axe that thread so foster discussion on the site. Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that.
Now here's the big thing. Your solution to people not liking GD is for people to not post/visit the thread. But if so much of the community is being discussed within this one thread then anyone who chooses that option gets alienated from the site. This effect is magnified by the first observation that news and other novelties were discussed in GD over their own threads. Opting out of the thread shouldn't have to be a choice that people need to make to have a complete forum experience.
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Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that.
you could make a poll to prove that, just saying
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Show nested quote +Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Well it also feeds into my argument that if everything were in one thread, and people were forced to opt out of it, that that is bad for the forum overall. Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back.
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What is preventing LD from returning to TL with filter options for calendar swapping and news articles?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 12:09 Dubzex wrote: What is preventing LD from returning to TL with filter options for calendar swapping and news articles? Filters suck. We did a lot of research on it and the stats came back that people were not using them and/or they were confusing. Since that vast majority were not filtering (be it for lack of knowledge or because they didn't want it) it meant that the front page was massively stressed out and the sidebars massively bloated. There's a lot more than we can do with a dedicated site like this... but as I pointed out in my first post that hasn't materialised for a few reasons. We're still confident that this site will live up to our vision for it in time, its just taking longer than we would have liked!
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On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog
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Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them).
For example, listing the streams of people like Ler and Comeh, both of whom stream pretty regularly is significantly better than listing the stream of 'random gurl #87 who happens to play dota.'
On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog + Show Spoiler + Because just because you all don't understand how a forum works doesn't suddenly mean that GD would be any less redundant.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog Well the issue is that the changes proposed (more or less greater moderation) don't really address the issues I raised about content overlap.
If we want to have a place where general dota questions can be asked then we can facilitate that (but obviously, that's going to be very different to what GD was and it isn't going to satisfy those who called that thread home). (Of course there is simple qna but I guess for esports stuff a thread could exist?)
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 13:50 LeLoup wrote: Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them).
For example, listing the streams of people like Ler and Comeh, both of whom stream pretty regularly is significantly better than listing the stream of 'random gurl #87 who happens to play dota.' That's actually a really neat idea.
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On November 24 2014 13:50 LeLoup wrote:Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them). For example, listing the streams of people like Ler and Comeh, both of whom stream pretty regularly is significantly better than listing the stream of 'random gurl #87 who happens to play dota.' Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog + Show Spoiler + Because just because you all don't understand how a forum works doesn't suddenly mean that GD would be any less redundant.
This is actually really cool and I hope it gets implemented
edit: and comeh is on Demon's stream right now lol
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On November 24 2014 13:53 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog Well the issue is that the changes proposed (more or less greater moderation) don't really address the issues I raised about content overlap. Not really a concern since anything in GD is a casual chat (that can change direction quickly) where if someone wants to discuss something in a more focused manner, they would make a new thread.
GD: "oh fuck i got dropped in my game for some reason." then Yango replies or something Tavern thread OP "Due to a memory in dota where the PA Arcana exposes some backdoor exploit drop hack or w/e blah blah blah reference reddit somewhere cause people are faster there"
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
id second any idea that gets me on the streaming thing
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 14:19 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 13:53 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog Well the issue is that the changes proposed (more or less greater moderation) don't really address the issues I raised about content overlap. Not really a concern since anything in GD is a casual chat (that can change direction quickly) where if someone wants to discuss something in a more focused manner, they would make a new thread. GD: "oh fuck i got dropped in my game for some reason." then Yango replies or something Tavern thread OP "Due to a memory in dota where the PA Arcana exposes some backdoor exploit drop hack or w/e blah blah blah reference reddit somewhere cause people are faster there" So you're really asking for a casual chat thread still, with the last inception being a casual chat thread how do you make it different so that it doesn't fall into the same problems? The option of 'just making a thread' existed while GD was active yet it wasn't actively pursued by people.
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What if there was a thread in Tavern for non-dota talk? I mean, other than that I don't really think anything is missing from tavern (again, learn to forum pls) and it would be nice to have a place to talk about non-dota things with people who do share similar interests. Like for example the CS:GO stuff that happened, and things like that.
Obviously it would have to be a bit stricter than the GD thread was, but I think that it's probably one of the only real missing pieces that should be brought back.
That is unless we want to open up the Tavern to include other things besides just Dota talk.
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On November 24 2014 14:51 Jinxed wrote: What if there was a thread in Tavern for non-dota talk? I mean, other than that I don't really think anything is missing from tavern (again, learn to forum pls) and it would be nice to have a place to talk about non-dota things with people who do share similar interests. Like for example the CS:GO stuff that happened, and things like that.
Obviously it would have to be a bit stricter than the GD thread was, but I think that it's probably one of the only real missing pieces that should be brought back.
That is unless we want to open up the Tavern to include other things besides just Dota talk. I'm about to take an exam but i want to +1 this
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Hmmm a strictly off topic thread might have it's place in tavern. I'll raise it with others and once we've thought about it we'll get back to you on it.
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On November 24 2014 14:28 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 14:19 CorsairHero wrote:On November 24 2014 13:53 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog Well the issue is that the changes proposed (more or less greater moderation) don't really address the issues I raised about content overlap. Not really a concern since anything in GD is a casual chat (that can change direction quickly) where if someone wants to discuss something in a more focused manner, they would make a new thread. GD: "oh fuck i got dropped in my game for some reason." then Yango replies or something Tavern thread OP "Due to a memory in dota where the PA Arcana exposes some backdoor exploit drop hack or w/e blah blah blah reference reddit somewhere cause people are faster there" So you're really asking for a casual chat thread still, with the last inception being a casual chat thread how do you make it different so that it doesn't fall into the same problems? The option of 'just making a thread' existed while GD was active yet it wasn't actively pursued by people.
Yep. There's a report button / get a mod in there / some of the low quality posts were made by people in this thread. Threads take more effort to make but at least the option was there or post in GD.
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I think focussing more on individual player streams is not the way to go in a teamgame. Although i like the idea of upgrading the non-featured section somehow and active forummembers that stream could benefit from that. The emphasis on creating more content or pleasure together in a teamgame seems more logical to me then trying to create more exposure for individually created content. Community based content should be on a calender in the sidebar somewhere if its casted. Its content created by multiple community members together (players+casters+coaches+staff+whatever). As an example, i really enjoyed the dualcasts of matches in the amateur liquiddota pasture league, i think the quality of casts is really high (i didnt expect that). The casters were on par with some procasts of bts for sure.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Don't know when the last time you visit TL but we had some community tournament (LRSL iirc.. or maybe a grudge match?) on the calendar very recently. We can definitely offer more support for cool community events
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Lemme draft you an OP for a offtopic thread since i found a pc with a working keyboard in this hell hub on earth that is my uni (like every otehr door is a portal to hell :O) The thread would be titled "Weather and current affairs"
On Novemeber 32 2014 9:20 in a parallel universe Qbek shitpostedThis is a thread dedicated to the two pillars of social interaction, weather and current affairs. It is meant as a place to discuss anything not dota related with your bros from liquiddota. We all know people who don't play dota can't have a real opinion The rules are simple: 1. If it's about dota, you're in the wrong place 2. Posting funny pics/vids is not okay, posting pics vids to start a discussion is fine(even if you fail at getting a discussion started, at least you tried) 3. All forum rules still apply 4. Actual posts about weather are somewhat discouraged n_n So, How bout dem apples?
And my first post would be "I like my apples shiny and crunchy".
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Damn I thought a good title would be "So, how are you doing today LD"
I guess it's a bit long though.
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im more surprised it wasnt about ponies
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On November 24 2014 17:31 icystorage wrote: im more surprised it wasnt about ponies Applejack is in the background
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On November 24 2014 13:50 Jinxed wrote: Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them).
just wanted to say I think this is a really really good idea. Also Plexa who should we contact if we want to offer our assistance? I might have missed it but I don't think I saw anything like that here so far.
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If you guys decide to make the offtopic thread a thing plz let me know. I d love to post the OP with added candy aand hookers and whatever rules u wanna add.
Fuck i can even moderate it for you. Targe will attest my admin skills are top class
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 17:43 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 13:50 Jinxed wrote: Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them). just wanted to say I think this is a really really good idea. Also Plexa who should we contact if we want to offer our assistance? I might have missed it but I don't think I saw anything like that here so far. Generally speaking, you can shoot any staff member a PM. However PM'ing me is always a safe bet :D
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On November 24 2014 17:43 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 13:50 Jinxed wrote: Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them). just wanted to say I think this is a really really good idea. Also Plexa who should we contact if we want to offer our assistance? I might have missed it but I don't think I saw anything like that here so far. I think I said if anyone wants to help out let me know earlier in the thread. But you can contact anyone on staff to be honest. Plexa is a good option.
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On November 24 2014 18:00 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 17:43 OmniEulogy wrote:On November 24 2014 13:50 Jinxed wrote: Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them). just wanted to say I think this is a really really good idea. Also Plexa who should we contact if we want to offer our assistance? I might have missed it but I don't think I saw anything like that here so far. I think I said if anyone wants to help out let me know earlier in the thread. But you can contact anyone on staff to be honest. Plexa is a good option.
ah thanks and sorry I must have missed it. So many pages of reading this is why I wasn't good at mafia. lol
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On November 20 2014 14:50 Acritter wrote: Speaking for a moment about strategy. News is a different subject.
DOTA2 is a pretty godawful topic to write strategy guides on. No matter how good you are at writing it up, you've got to expect all your hard work to be invalidated one patch later. Oh, you want to write a section on how to deal with your build's counterpicks? Three months later you'll seem quaint at best and clueless at worst. It isn't the same way for SC2 or Hearthstone. The Blizzard balancing model has its flaws, but it does allow for a lot more stability. As a total scrub, you can take an old SC2 build or Hearthstone netdeck and expect it to perform decently well for you. Hell, for anyone trying to learn Protoss, I still start off teaching them the 4gate as a manageable introduction to the game, and that's been a joke for years. The closest thing we have to something eternal is that "Art of Support" thing. That was fairly solid, and it was solid because it deliberately avoided saying anything specific apart from pull times and the like. But let's be honest. It's almost never by means of learning grand notions of theory and practicing last-hitting ad nauseum that you get good at this game. It's by finding out little tricks to the game and drilling them into muscle memory that you improve.
The only time I can remember seeing a glut of guides for this game was the DotA Allstars days, back on Pendragon's forums before he shut it down in favor of League. And guess what? Most of those guides were terrible! There was no community to speak of, there was no matchmaking, and chances are that outside of inhouse leagues you'd be playing with scrubs and leavers every game. So Merlini's guide to Zeus that taught a bunch of stuff that should be obvious (seriously, by modern standards it was pretty basic) was revelatory in that light. Hell, just reading that stupid-simple guide to Zeus got me to the point where he was my best hero. But those days are gone, because everyone can just subscribe to Torte's builds instead. There's no room for that kind of guide any longer, where the content is basically just skill build and item build with some extra words tossed in. For fairness, though, I will note that the old Warding guide was pretty damn excellent.
So what do we have left? Basically, the tips and tricks. You can't write the kind of detailed guides that we expect out of, say, SC2 build orders for those. It's a totally different field, but it's still really important. Some of them are even impossible to describe. How do you actually know when you have potentially lethal damage, and when do you hold back and run? You can do the math, but generally on the spot you just have a sense for it, and that can't be taught. You might be expecting I have a proper answer for this, after typing it all out, but I don't. It's not an easy problem to solve, not in any way that will get a new audience showing up. Hell, I half expect I'm wrong about all of this, and the real problem is nobody giving a shit.
Whatever. Game is hard.
lol
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That sounds really negative so I'll throw out that I don't normally post in the threads or read most of them after having read enough to realize what every thread will be so I'm not like some fat kid eating a disgusting cake while whining about how disgusting it is
Off topic threads own though so maybe I should just go back to TL or maybe I'll make my own forum and just post my own thoughts and argue with myself on alts.
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
wasnt there an off-topic discussion thread in the pre-tavern ages?
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On November 24 2014 20:40 ahswtini wrote: wasnt there an off-topic discussion thread in the pre-tavern ages? Yes, Finest Hour started it right after GD got closed due to people intentionally posting shit in the thread to get it closed.
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On November 24 2014 23:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 20:40 ahswtini wrote: wasnt there an off-topic discussion thread in the pre-tavern ages? Yes, Finest Hour started it right after GD got closed due to people intentionally posting shit in the thread to get it closed. It was started way earlier, had little success and is where people went when GD was closed, and it in turn got closed when tavern got released
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
yeah the off topic had nothing to do with attempts to get gd shut down
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Everybody just talked dota in it anyway
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On November 24 2014 14:10 bagels21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 13:50 LeLoup wrote:Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them). For example, listing the streams of people like Ler and Comeh, both of whom stream pretty regularly is significantly better than listing the stream of 'random gurl #87 who happens to play dota.' On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog + Show Spoiler + Because just because you all don't understand how a forum works doesn't suddenly mean that GD would be any less redundant. This is actually really cool and I hope it gets implemented edit: and comeh is on Demon's stream right now lol fuck when was i playing with demon?
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I still remember when irc stack sniped idra stack and made him rage quit streaming dota. He never apologized for picking pre nerf troll tho.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
irc has hit idra twice hasnt it?
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Yeah, once on his stream and once on drewbies.
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Like half of the IRC regulars have a confirmed kill on idra, it's glorious xD
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On November 25 2014 00:26 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 14:10 bagels21 wrote:On November 24 2014 13:50 LeLoup wrote:Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them). For example, listing the streams of people like Ler and Comeh, both of whom stream pretty regularly is significantly better than listing the stream of 'random gurl #87 who happens to play dota.' On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog + Show Spoiler + Because just because you all don't understand how a forum works doesn't suddenly mean that GD would be any less redundant. This is actually really cool and I hope it gets implemented edit: and comeh is on Demon's stream right now lol fuck when was i playing with demon?
I think you were bristle and he was spectre? You had an invoker and AA if I remember correctly. Jimmy went yolo as hell and died a ton early game
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On November 25 2014 00:53 bagels21 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2014 00:26 Comeh wrote:On November 24 2014 14:10 bagels21 wrote:On November 24 2014 13:50 LeLoup wrote:Seriously speaking, one thing that I would personally want to see is more emphasis on the community members that stream. I think that the best way to do this is to firstly separate the Teams and Players section into two subsections. One for Teams and the discussion about them, and then have the second for individual players. The individual players section would act as a stream threads section as well, allowing users here to advertise their streams, as well as would have a listing and discussion of featured streams on the site. Then maybe we could get rid of a number of the random streams that are listed on the sidebar (because, seriously having over 10 viewers is the dumbest requirement for that. I have no idea who half these people are and even less desire to watch the overwhelming majority of them). For example, listing the streams of people like Ler and Comeh, both of whom stream pretty regularly is significantly better than listing the stream of 'random gurl #87 who happens to play dota.' On November 24 2014 13:46 CorsairHero wrote:On November 24 2014 12:09 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:04 icystorage wrote:Lastly, your preference to have everything in one thread vs spread out of a forum is a subjective fact and will differ from user to user - obviously with how much you care about GD you prefer one thread, I'm not sure everyone would agree with that. you could make a poll to prove that, just saying Point is, GD in its previous inception isn't something that we can bring back. No one is disagreeing with this. From a post in another girl blog + Show Spoiler + Because just because you all don't understand how a forum works doesn't suddenly mean that GD would be any less redundant. This is actually really cool and I hope it gets implemented edit: and comeh is on Demon's stream right now lol fuck when was i playing with demon? I think you were bristle and he was spectre? You had an invoker and AA if I remember correctly. Jimmy went yolo as hell and died a ton early game Oh lord, that game was a disaster. No idea how we pulled that one out.
Also Atos Bristle is LEGIT AS HELL
I've been playing with pros a lot lately, which is weird since my MMR has been going down more than up. Ok sorry that was offtopic, probably should be in some offtopic thread in the Tavern.
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the "ANYBODY ELSE PLAYING WITH PROS MORE RECENTLY?" brag thread great plan
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last time i played with jimmy demon ho he whiffed all his rps and skewers on me and the only significant RP he casted i stole and we team wiped them #brag
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
On November 25 2014 01:00 Sn0_Man wrote: the "ANYBODY ELSE PLAYING WITH PROS MORE RECENTLY?" brag thread great plan go make it in tavern
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On November 25 2014 02:04 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2014 01:00 Sn0_Man wrote: the "ANYBODY ELSE PLAYING WITH PROS MORE RECENTLY?" brag thread great plan go make it in tavern Well I'm playing less with pros this week since C9 went to sweden so now aint a good time + Show Spoiler +see how ez dat brag was huehuehue Also to me thats an example of the kind of thread that doesn't deserve to exist as a thread and is exactly the sort of casual discussion that GD fostered.
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I'm not for or against bringing back GD but I think the current discussion although having derailed from the original topic is something I can admit to missing in the old GD thread. Like sn0 said, it's a casual discussion that's fun to have but doesn't necessarily need to exist as a thread titled "playing with the pros". That said, I think it's possible for the Tavern to fit itself in a good middle ground between having a casual discussion and not becoming overbearingly shitty like the old GD thread eventually became.
I'm pretty happy about the responses this thread received overall and I hope the discussion will find a way to manifest itself in making the site better.
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Like I advocated for, I think a non-dota thread could be just what is needed. I do think it would be more interesting if we opened tavern to non Dota threads, but I could see that being a mess if not managed correctly. I still have faith in the mods and Admins though. I think they'll make the right decision overall.
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uh, isnt tavern already open to not dota threads?
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technically yes but threadworthy non-dota discussions usually end up in the shared general forums.
or blogs
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28057 Posts
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 25 2014 04:37 PassiveAce wrote: uh, isnt tavern already open to not dota threads? Tavern is basically for non-esports discussion.
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Sometimes I just wanna tell my buds at LD that I read a nice book recently and maybe discuss how the protagonist was a classic case of retarded ignorant for the sake of exposition but the setting totally makes up for it and I particularly liked how the cloning and time travel was done in it and the FTL drives were really cool...
But I don;t feel like posting in the book dedicated threads in the community section because people there talkabout weird shit all the time.
Also didn't actually read a book like that, I mean cloning and time travel done well at once, come on, where does that happen?
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I think im gonna make a thread in The Tavern.
Thread made, feel free to close it mods if its not to your liking.
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That thread is a bit weird. I see what you're saying, but it doesn't feel like an 'official' non-dota thread it's more of just a place where people have been going in order to shitpost.
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On November 25 2014 03:26 Kuroeeah wrote: I'm not for or against bringing back GD but I think the current discussion although having derailed from the original topic is something I can admit to missing in the old GD thread. Like sn0 said, it's a casual discussion that's fun to have but doesn't necessarily need to exist as a thread titled "playing with the pros". That said, I think it's possible for the Tavern to fit itself in a good middle ground between having a casual discussion and not becoming overbearingly shitty like the old GD thread eventually became.
I'm pretty happy about the responses this thread received overall and I hope the discussion will find a way to manifest itself in making the site better. I agree with this, and imo others are overlooking that these spontaneous discussions are generally atleast partially dota related (such as this one)
Leloup's wording makes it sound like he is advocating for a "pure" no dota chat, but in practice that isn't what people talk about.
How many random chat threads have we seen in the last month? My opinion is that by denying casual, random "dota" chat you end up killing it.
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28057 Posts
On November 25 2014 07:22 Jinxed wrote:That thread is a bit weird. I see what you're saying, but it doesn't feel like an 'official' non-dota thread it's more of just a place where people have been going in order to shitpost. huh? not sure what you are talking about? I just linked the first post because Heyoka explained what the tavern was about.
This was in response to the guy who asked whether tavern was for non dota talk or not.
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^ extending on my post
Typical DO NOTS:
1. Want to talk about heroes, builds, items, or ways to play the game? Go to the strategy forum.
2. Want to complain/brag about your recent game? Go to QQ Thread / Pub Meta Discussion / Good Things that happened.
3. Want to talk about current games going on? Go to its appropriate LR thread.
4. A big news item just appeared? Post in its thread in the Dota 2 General
5. Have a big personal life event? Make a blog.
GD produced interesting/funny conversation because it was the intersection of all of these. Partitioning the forums doesn't just split the discussion, it prevents the formation of new topics
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PA arguing with PA is hard to keep track of
too many PA's since the arcana huehuehue
PS my brilliant idea for improving the site is to make all staff have "staff" icons from dota items (Mystic Staff, Staff of wizardry, Quarterstaff, Oblivion Staff, Force staff, etc )
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As someone who has been around a long time, i have to say, the GD thread was a bit of a fucking cesspit and was frankly embarassing to read at times. Unless you're part of the clique or have been reading the same thread since the beginning it was pointless. Not sure why they never just used IRC like most people who want to chat shit all day but whatever.
I think some of the reason the site sucks is that, compared to our BW and sc2 counterparts is that the dota community is generally playing more than theorycrafting, so less interesting stuff is posted/written up.
Also the lack of dedication from staff is pretty mindblowing. Why break us apart from the main TL site (and my damn home page for ten years) if you don't really have a plan or dedicated staff in place. I understand people have real life commitments but really you shouldnt be volunteering to take forward a new site i guess?
Dunno, rambling some.
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On November 25 2014 07:39 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2014 07:22 Jinxed wrote:That thread is a bit weird. I see what you're saying, but it doesn't feel like an 'official' non-dota thread it's more of just a place where people have been going in order to shitpost. huh? not sure what you are talking about? I just linked the first post because Heyoka explained what the tavern was about. This was in response to the guy who asked whether tavern was for non dota talk or not. Ah, misread on my part. Apologies.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 25 2014 07:49 Nebula wrote: Also the lack of dedication from staff is pretty mindblowing. Why break us apart from the main TL site (and my damn home page for ten years) if you don't really have a plan or dedicated staff in place. I understand people have real life commitments but really you shouldnt be volunteering to take forward a new site i guess? . That's not really fair. At the time we had both; plans and staff. Unfortunately a variety of real life issues hit a number of key figures in our management; things that we really couldn't anticipate or work around. We still have a clear vision for what we want to do here but that can only happen once we build things up again.
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You may not be able to anticipate or 'work around' issues with key staff but you can certainly communicate to the community. I wonder how many more weeks (months) of stagnation that would have gone by if this thread didn't exist. I also find it hard to believe it would be require much effort to find replacement volunteers in a pinch to do various activities around the site to at a minimum, give the illusion that something is being worked on.
http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/467938-sep-26-community-hero-challenge
This was the last outreach to the community from high level staff and it's still unresolved and confused if you read the thread. If Heyoka had to bow out for a bit, it's not hard for another admin to come in to announce the winners and build the hype for the next event. It's not like anyone would be mad that Heyoka himself didn't post the follow-up, anyone could do it to the same effect.
We all understand real life issues interfering with work but sometimes creative solutions are needed. As a user, I just don't buy the 'nothing we could do' mantra because you had staff issues. If staff issues reached such a critical mass that the sites content and direction came to a screeching hault, a simple blog update from any high admin saying, 'we have X vision, sorry it's taking awhile we have blah blah going on behind the scenes but we're excited for what's coming' and you'd probably quell the masses enough to figure everything out.
I think the general focus of this thread is too small scale though, things like 'bring back GD' or 'TL-Reunification' are ultimately uninteresting and less important to the sites success. There are major hurdles that LD needs to tackle to get anywhere close to resembling the close knit, community driven utopia that TL was (at least in our heads). If I get time at work tomorrow I might write a wall of text explaining some of those hurdles and where I think LD went wrong.
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i stopped posting on here since GD died.
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On November 20 2014 07:15 Comeh wrote: After that, I just kept posting closer and closer to the limit of what would normally get someone banned to see what would happen.
Nothing ofc The concern about shit posting shouldn't even be an issue assuming the report button works and mods respond before shit gets out of control (ie; caster bashing in LR threads). The guys who posted low quality shit in the past know who they are and it seems like they're wiling to play nice.
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On November 25 2014 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote:PA arguing with PA is hard to keep track of too many PA's since the arcana huehuehue PS my brilliant idea for improving the site is to make all staff have "staff" icons from dota items (Mystic Staff, Staff of wizardry, Quarterstaff, Oblivion Staff, Force staff, etc ) a first time dota player wouldn't know the difference
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 25 2014 08:56 crms wrote:You may not be able to anticipate or 'work around' issues with key staff but you can certainly communicate to the community. I wonder how many more weeks (months) of stagnation that would have gone by if this thread didn't exist. I also find it hard to believe it would be require much effort to find replacement volunteers in a pinch to do various activities around the site to at a minimum, give the illusion that something is being worked on. http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/467938-sep-26-community-hero-challengeThis was the last outreach to the community from high level staff and it's still unresolved and confused if you read the thread. If Heyoka had to bow out for a bit, it's not hard for another admin to come in to announce the winners and build the hype for the next event. It's not like anyone would be mad that Heyoka himself didn't post the follow-up, anyone could do it to the same effect. We all understand real life issues interfering with work but sometimes creative solutions are needed. As a user, I just don't buy the 'nothing we could do' mantra because you had staff issues. If staff issues reached such a critical mass that the sites content and direction came to a screeching hault, a simple blog update from any high admin saying, 'we have X vision, sorry it's taking awhile we have blah blah going on behind the scenes but we're excited for what's coming' and you'd probably quell the masses enough to figure everything out. I think the general focus of this thread is too small scale though, things like 'bring back GD' or 'TL-Reunification' are ultimately uninteresting and less important to the sites success. There are major hurdles that LD needs to tackle to get anywhere close to resembling the close knit, community driven utopia that TL was (at least in our heads). If I get time at work tomorrow I might write a wall of text explaining some of those hurdles and where I think LD went wrong. Your criticisms are certainly valid, so please don't take this post as an excuse. We're well aware of our shortcomings and are in the process of fixing that. Heyoka having to leave the site for personal reasons is something that happened very recently, there's a lot of stuff (both internal and external) that he was working on that we're slowing catching up with. The lack of response from 'high level' staff is more reflective of the number of 'high level' staff we have at the moment than anything else. We essentially have one person looking after one site at the moment, Heyoka's sudden departure from the site means 'high level' activity goes from 1 to 0 until we got word what was happening from him. Me and Naz had talked about where to go from here before this blog was posted (although this thread sure as hell massively upped the urgency on it) and then I was at a math conference last week and wasn't around when this was posted (I'm in the final year of a PhD you see).
You're welcome to write a post about the problems with LD and where LD went wrong (although the latter probably won't be close to correct because you're not seeing what's going on internally). We're also not in the business of making claims about our vision or where we want the site to go, the reason being that we aim pretty damn high and to not reach those goals would let down the community if we stated them.
Re: 'close knit community'. I think LD already achieves that to a large extent. The majority of complaints from this thread were about staff-side issues (and rightly so).
One last thing. We take this site very seriously, if not for my studies demanding so much from me I'd be here 24/7 doing whatever I could to fill the gaps. Instead we're slowing forming a new way to get the site to where we want it to be and it's gradually taking shape. You might not see immediate changes left and right, but I personally aim to have (at the very least) the issues raised in this thread properly treated within three months.
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it's not much but i sure can confirm that the management indeed is trying its best
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Don't mean to sound like a dick, and yes, I realise that's something you usually say when you pretend to be nice, but it doesn't really look like it.
Surely no one is expecting sweeping changes by the end of the day, but when even little things like a casual conversation thread need to be discussed thoroughly seemingly weeks, that's just sad. Apparently LD wasn't in a state of disarray that needed to be urgently addressed 6 days ago either. I'm sorry to be blunt like this and please don't take it as a personal attack either, real life definitely is more important than anything on the interwebz, but it feels nothing like the days of old on TL when there was something interesting going on all the time. Be it some TL produced foreign BW content/starleague hypu/interesting and properly moderated strategy discussion/powerranks.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Yeah I don't take any of that personally, especially when what your saying is true. In primarily looking after TL I wasn't as aware as I should have been of the issues going on in LD, this thread put those issues in the right priority box. That's what I mean when I say 'bumped up the urgency'.
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I would like to echo what other people have said. I've been coming less and less to LD as time has gone by. It just seems everything has become stale. The site isn't moving or churning out unique articles. I can go to TL or LH and see something new everyday. It's good to know that you guys are aware of the issue. Hopefully, we can get LD back on track.
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
On November 25 2014 09:07 Shaella wrote: i stopped posting on here since GD died. i miss u michelle
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On November 25 2014 18:25 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2014 09:07 Shaella wrote: i stopped posting on here since GD died. i miss u michelle This is the most beautiful love story ever, see what you are doing to us LD?
YOU ARE TEARING US APART!!!
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I have to say I ultimately disagree with conglomerating all strategy topics related to a specific hero to a "hero thread." It means any new guides dont get attention, any specific questions often remain unanswered for long periods of times, and discussion becomes very incoherent.
Personally at least, with the introduction of hero threads I no longer had the motivation to write any guides. I thought it would be cool if TL had a set of guides for each hero but the hero threads kinda killed it.
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Have you tried asking reddit for help? They seem to have a good grasp on these sorts of problems and always find the right solution.
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2774 Posts
On November 26 2014 06:43 synapse wrote: I have to say I ultimately disagree with conglomerating all strategy topics related to a specific hero to a "hero thread." It means any new guides dont get attention, any specific questions often remain unanswered for long periods of times, and discussion becomes very incoherent.
Personally at least, with the introduction of hero threads I no longer had the motivation to write any guides. I thought it would be cool if TL had a set of guides for each hero but the hero threads kinda killed it. What about labeling the guides with [Guide] (which as been done before) and making a guide index in the strategy forum, or do you think that wouldn't work? Strategy could be split as well by making a subforum (look at main TL for example), but I don't think that would work.
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On November 26 2014 06:43 synapse wrote: I have to say I ultimately disagree with conglomerating all strategy topics related to a specific hero to a "hero thread." It means any new guides dont get attention, any specific questions often remain unanswered for long periods of times, and discussion becomes very incoherent.
Personally at least, with the introduction of hero threads I no longer had the motivation to write any guides. I thought it would be cool if TL had a set of guides for each hero but the hero threads kinda killed it. Hero guides are supposed to be posted in the OP, and if you write a good guide for it, you can probably justify taking over the OP from whoever has it (or just ask for it).
Specific questions are usually pretty good about being answered... not sure what forum you're reading.
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On November 26 2014 07:05 Jinxed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 06:43 synapse wrote: I have to say I ultimately disagree with conglomerating all strategy topics related to a specific hero to a "hero thread." It means any new guides dont get attention, any specific questions often remain unanswered for long periods of times, and discussion becomes very incoherent.
Personally at least, with the introduction of hero threads I no longer had the motivation to write any guides. I thought it would be cool if TL had a set of guides for each hero but the hero threads kinda killed it. Hero guides are supposed to be posted in the OP, and if you write a good guide for it, you can probably justify taking over the OP from whoever has it (or just ask for it). Specific questions are usually pretty good about being answered... not sure what forum you're reading. I understand how it works, I have 4 or 5 hero threads. Have you noticed that any recent hero guides on heroes that aren't newly released or had big patch changes have gotten maybe 10 posts of comments or criticism? Let's say you post a guide to [Hero] Sniper, and then nobody checks the sniper thread because there's no reason to. Thread gets pushed out of front page very quickly, and this happens to a lot of bumps that deserve their own thread but get shoehorned into "post in sqsa" or "post in hero thread." The hero thread will gather far fewer views and thus far less discussion, and it makes the strategy subforum very stagnant imo.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 26 2014 06:43 synapse wrote: I have to say I ultimately disagree with conglomerating all strategy topics related to a specific hero to a "hero thread." It means any new guides dont get attention, any specific questions often remain unanswered for long periods of times, and discussion becomes very incoherent.
Personally at least, with the introduction of hero threads I no longer had the motivation to write any guides. I thought it would be cool if TL had a set of guides for each hero but the hero threads kinda killed it. Yeah this is something we noted a while ago. Ultimately people don't necessarily come here for guides (and there's a lot of good guides out there on other sites atm) so working on those was deprioritized until we had someone dedicated to work on those. Instead we wanted to focus on improving what we already do pretty well (calendar related stuff mostly). Some of that is near completion and with some new blood working on them we might actually be able to get something launched for a change! Still... if you're volunteering to help make strategy better you know who to talk to
On November 26 2014 06:46 Dubzex wrote: Have you tried asking reddit for help? They seem to have a good grasp on these sorts of problems and always find the right solution. It's less about the direction we're going than finding people to make it happen. As I mentioned this is quite a recent thing for me(/us i guess?) since Heyoka only recently left us. Progress is being made though!
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
is heyoka permagone? initially it sounded like he was just taking some time off to sort out personal issues
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I for one am happy with the change. I don't care about SC2 anymore, I had to manually remove all SC2 streams, calender entries, forums, to see dota2 related stuff. Lets be honest, LD, JD and so on are mainly used to find streams and to discuss stuff in live report threads, not guides or comments from pros. And that's something LD does very well.
I have visited TL itself maybe twice since LD was launched. Please never merge them again.
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Should stop using this topic (with the dumbest title) to write PR responses and open up a proper thread to facilitate discussion points and collect feedback.
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2774 Posts
On November 26 2014 09:51 Torte de Lini wrote: Should stop using this topic (with the dumbest title) to write PR responses and open up a proper thread to facilitate discussion points and collect feedback. I think this thread has been perfectly fine so far in collecting good feedback, don't see much of a problem.
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Just adding another experience - there were basically 3 things that killed my overall interest in Dota (not that I was a super-frequent poster beforehand tho...) - Death of the Team Liquid Dota2 pro team - Death of Liquid Dota site feature news articles/coverage/analysis - (more recently) got a Heroes of the Storm key
Also I'm too antisocial to join the GD and irc clique, or even the Liquid inhouse league group. Reddit, however, is perfect for mindless browsing. The flip side is, even if their site is more active, the discussion is so shallow I don't bother posting. If LD had a renaissance of content I'd be positively motivated to participate.
In any case, 2 of those 3 are perfectly fixable...
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well TL just picked up another player (sc2) so who knows when if ever there will be a team coming back for TI5
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
^ Heathstone actually
Believe me when I say Naz wants a team at Ti5. Part of that is getting a team that can get to Ti5 in the first place :D
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On November 26 2014 06:46 Dubzex wrote: Have you tried asking reddit for help? They seem to have a good grasp on these sorts of problems and always find the right solution. i've got an idea lets start banning content creators.
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
On November 26 2014 09:51 Torte de Lini wrote: Should stop using this topic (with the dumbest title) to write PR responses and open up a proper thread to facilitate discussion points and collect feedback. disagreed this is organic homegrown feedback right here
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Canada2068 Posts
On November 26 2014 19:48 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 09:51 Torte de Lini wrote: Should stop using this topic (with the dumbest title) to write PR responses and open up a proper thread to facilitate discussion points and collect feedback. disagreed this is organic homegrown feedback right here organic costs too much. i prefer GMO
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On November 26 2014 14:15 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 06:46 Dubzex wrote: Have you tried asking reddit for help? They seem to have a good grasp on these sorts of problems and always find the right solution. i've got an idea lets start banning content creators. Clearly challenging content creators to 1v1 ban duels is the way to get more stuff on the site. The fear gets their creative juices flowing.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
im not even sure if any content i create would be wanted on this site
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
On November 26 2014 23:42 Targe wrote: im not even sure if any content i create would be wanted on this site im sure the rpg will be well received!
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On November 26 2014 23:42 Targe wrote: im not even sure if any content i create would be wanted on this site Depends if Dota Vaporware / yunglean style pictures are desired.
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Bit late (because i don't come here very much now) but want to echo alot of the sentiment. I always came here (well mostly TL) for the articles, the previews and reviews of everything that was going on in the pro scene. These have all but dried up and so therefore has my visits to the site other than for the wiki and the calendar. This has caused discussion threads to die also as people don't come here as a default. Like with the new ingame ad i saw it and came here to see a discussion of it that wasn't just Reddit spam, there was no discussion thread and with the lack of posting i didn't feel like i wanted to make one. I would love LD to get on its feet, need a place to discuss dota which is well moderated and not just QQ and whining spam. I don't know how to become involved but i wouldn't mind helping if you do need some volunteers to produce some content while your short staffed.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 27 2014 00:02 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 23:42 Targe wrote: im not even sure if any content i create would be wanted on this site Depends if Dota Vaporware / yunglean style pictures are desired.
everything i do recently is vaporwave actually dayum
On November 26 2014 23:55 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 23:42 Targe wrote: im not even sure if any content i create would be wanted on this site im sure the rpg will be well received! rpg on standby atm
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On November 27 2014 00:07 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 00:02 Comeh wrote:On November 26 2014 23:42 Targe wrote: im not even sure if any content i create would be wanted on this site Depends if Dota Vaporware / yunglean style pictures are desired. everything i do recently is vaporwave actually dayum Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 23:55 ahswtini wrote:On November 26 2014 23:42 Targe wrote: im not even sure if any content i create would be wanted on this site im sure the rpg will be well received! rpg on standby atm It's called a hiatus m8
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As far as content, this site has news, streams on the side, and upcoming tournaments, which is all it needs. Maybe if I was newer to the game I'd like all these in depth strategy things but personally I don't see any value to having them. Of the ones I have seen, I disagree with a lot of it anyway. When there were extensive write-ups for tournament finals and stuff on this site I always felt like the "writers" were noobs, so getting the right people to provide this content will be challenging.
What I do hate is having to go to a different site for Broodwar, Hearthstone and Dota 2. If somebody is only interested in Dota stuff there were filters for all of the other games so they could just see Dota stuff. I would be happy if they switched it all back to the same site and just let people filter out the games they didn't want to see.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
theyve like explained why theyre not going to do exactly that in this thread
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I have the venomancer thread but I haven't bothered to update it in a long time. Thouh to be fair nothing has changed aside from people playing veno as core instead of support in pro games.
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Reddit has all the news and discussion, JoinDota frequently pumps out news articles and interviews, NADota has shit posting, what does LiquidDota have? There's nothing besides the occasional article and even then that just gets forwarded to reddit.
I'm under the idea that LiquidDota should find its niche by interacting with the community through events. The community hero challenge was a great step as is the open 1v1 ban challenge. A formalized inhouse league not unlike NEL every few months would be nice. A replay analysis thread would be nice. A Staff vs. Community tournament every so often would be nice. These are things I feel the Dota community needs and LD could help provide.
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On November 29 2014 17:05 Kishin2 wrote: Reddit has all the news and discussion, JoinDota frequently pumps out news articles and interviews, NADota has shit posting, what does LiquidDota have? There's nothing besides the occasional article and even then that just gets forwarded to reddit.
I'm under the idea that LiquidDota should find its niche by interacting with the community through events. The community hero challenge was a great step as is the open 1v1 ban challenge. A formalized inhouse league not unlike NEL every few months would be nice. A replay analysis thread would be nice. A Staff vs. Community tournament every so often would be nice. These are things I feel the Dota community needs and LD could help provide.
As official New Liquid Party spokesperson I would like to formally thank you for your kind words about my 1v1 thread. Your support is much appreciated and I look forward to posting with you in the future.
Sincerely, da dihg.
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I kinda want GD back, or a general chat thread -- sometimes I have really inane questions but have nowhere to ask it. >_> This is as good a place to ask as any; was going to ask in Tavern but it's DotA-related yet doesn't warrant a thread of its own.
.... Where did the Vici Gaming & DK (and iG and everyone else's) fanthreads go? O.O also: VG doesn't have any upcoming matches till Summit, y/n?
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On November 20 2014 23:35 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 07:50 Qbek wrote:On November 20 2014 07:48 Sn0_Man wrote:On November 20 2014 07:47 PassiveAce wrote: I will miss GD because it let me grow relationships with the people that make up this community outside of the website. The ability to talk about whatever crossed our minds in one central location encouraged friendships that persist today.
that said, it was an insular shithole. especially towards the end. I think ur supposed to live in IRC for that or something Which isn't my thing You mean that wretched hive of blatant racism and the only place still living up to the ideas of GD? Yea, nobody should ever go there, it;s horrible! I can't tell if you're joking or not, but that's pretty much what happened in the one week I entered the IRC. Blatant nazism/racism/sexism and all the other bad isms, combined with lots of bad jokes about the sexlife of a 14 year old (kollin, fuck knows how he survived in there and what he's turning out to be), and a lot of talk about Planets, a game I don't play and do not care about. As a regular visitor you probably don't perceive it that way, but don't be surprised when people don't want to join you there And when this starts happening in the GD thread and 5-page long discussions about the word 'faggot' arise, it's no surprise it gets shut down. At that point the GD thread added zero value to the site and is more likely to turn people away. I need to see a shrink twice a week after that much IRC exposure
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is this secretly the new GD?
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Sorry I am 1 week late to the party. I really wanted to finish reading and get some sleep before posting/bumping this thread, but something got my attention.
On November 24 2014 12:13 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 12:09 Dubzex wrote: What is preventing LD from returning to TL with filter options for calendar swapping and news articles? Filters suck. We did a lot of research on it and the stats came back that people were not using them and/or they were confusing. Since that vast majority were not filtering (be it for lack of knowledge or because they didn't want it) it meant that the front page was massively stressed out and the sidebars massively bloated. There's a lot more than we can do with a dedicated site like this... but as I pointed out in my first post that hasn't materialised for a few reasons. We're still confident that this site will live up to our vision for it in time, its just taking longer than we would have liked!
So you (admins) decided to carter to an audiece that is too stupid/lazy to use something simple as filters and now we have this discussion about 'TL.net is about quality first'. Really? Where are you expecting it to come from?
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No, filters do suck. Filters were there more to please people that for some reason couldnt fathom seeing content from other games, but website design has to take into account that most people wont have anything filtered. Even ignoring the fact most people dont even know how they work, having everything on one page just doesnt work and it has to work well for people that do want to see everything.
That doesnt mean there werent other solutions, most websites just becomes portals with diferent front pages and layouts for diferent subjects. But filters do suck.
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On December 02 2014 09:36 Slomo wrote:Sorry I am 1 week late to the party. I really wanted to finish reading and get some sleep before posting/bumping this thread, but something got my attention. Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 12:13 Plexa wrote:On November 24 2014 12:09 Dubzex wrote: What is preventing LD from returning to TL with filter options for calendar swapping and news articles? Filters suck. We did a lot of research on it and the stats came back that people were not using them and/or they were confusing. Since that vast majority were not filtering (be it for lack of knowledge or because they didn't want it) it meant that the front page was massively stressed out and the sidebars massively bloated. There's a lot more than we can do with a dedicated site like this... but as I pointed out in my first post that hasn't materialised for a few reasons. We're still confident that this site will live up to our vision for it in time, its just taking longer than we would have liked! So you (admins) decided to carter to an audiece that is too stupid/lazy to use something simple as filters and now we have this discussion about 'TL.net is about quality first'. Really? Where are you expecting it to come from? Web design shouldn't be driven by artistic zeal. When data demonstrates that the features are not being used by users, it is clear that the website isn't serving the members needs. This doesn't mean your users are dumbasses for not understanding your grand design, it means you should try something different and then evaluate it. The nice thing about running a website is that you can track what your users do, iterate quickly, and implement a/b testing much easier than in real life.
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Additionally, for those of us that did try to follow multiple games, the calender was made completely unreadable. It was way too hard to tell what was what or when it started. Also half the time it felt like you were guessing at what game something was for.
Not to mention the stream list which was 18 kinds of terrible. I never want to have to bother skimming through all that crap ever again.
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United States97248 Posts
On December 02 2014 08:36 Doraemon wrote: is this secretly the new GD? yes but dont tell anyone
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the new GD is called GD no secret
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On December 05 2014 06:38 Shellshock wrote:yes but dont tell anyone too late now
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So this is where everyone posts huh
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